Internal amplifier phono stage vs external phono stage?

[TrevorBarten]

I have been looking at cartridges some being MC and in this search I have kinda shifted my focus to looking at what kind of phono stage I should go for. I have 2 turntables that I am planning on using pretty regularly and it's looking like one of them will be equipped with a low output mc cartridge. Now my question is, what kind of money would you have to spend to 'outperform' a phono stage from a decent vintage amplifier from the 80/90s? I have been looking at offerings like the accuphase e-205 or a sony es amp (upgrade as I have a fa3es already). Let's ignore for a moment that neither of those allow for 2 record players to be connected, my question here mainly just revolves around the quality of the phono stages and how much money I would have to spend to get something comparable that is external.

 

[NJAudioGuy]

In general the outboard phono stages will always outperform any integrated from the 80/90s. and there are multiple choices available used - usually round 50% of retail. I spent way more than I wanted for the Graham Slee Reflex MM phono stage - yet it is the quietest by far of any stage I have owned.

As a side note - if your current system isn't listed - hard for anyone to give advice.

 

[TrevorBarten]

In general the outboard phono stages will always outperform any integrated from the 80/90s. and there are multiple choices available used - usually round 50% of retail. I spent way more than I wanted for the Graham Slee Reflex MM phono stage - yet it is the quietest by far of any stage I have owned.

As a side note - if your current system isn't listed - hard for anyone to give advice.

I don't have a final choice yet for my mm cartridge, my mc cartridge or my amplifier so I figured it wouldn't really add much. I am planning on buying an accuphase ac-2 (maybe). Not sure yet on the MM though the recordplayer for the mm is a ps-x75 biotracer. I am most definitely planning on getting a different amplifier as well though my current two amps that are in rotation are a fa3es (as mentioned) and a ta-4650. I would like something with more inputs.

 

[Capitol C]

I would hesitate to say that there is a universal answer to the integrated vs. separates question. (I know, don't kill me!) A phono stage doesn't need much power, so it won't tax the power supply in an integrated amp, and a good integrated amp will properly deal with pesky issues like ground loops. Separate preamps are certainly higher-end than many integrated preamps--otherwise, why spend the extra money?--but it isn't safe to generalize to all equipment. Also, and again, please don't kill me, a phono preamp is not a complicated beast, even for moving coil design. Transducers (cartridges and speakers) are the weak links, spend money there instead.

 

[TrevorBarten]

I would hesitate to say that there is a universal answer to the integrated vs. separates question. (I know, don't kill me!) A phono stage doesn't need much power, so it won't tax the power supply in an integrated amp, and a good integrated amp will properly deal with pesky issues like ground loops. Separate preamps are certainly higher-end than many integrated preamps--otherwise, why spend the extra money?--but it isn't safe to generalize to all equipment. Also, and again, please don't kill me, a phono preamp is not a complicated beast, even for moving coil design. Transducers (cartridges and speakers) are the weak links, spend money there instead.

Of course it makes sense to spend the money on other parts to get bigger improvements but I was just more so curious, not particularly looking for purchase advice. I know that there isn't going to be a general answer.