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Is Soundstage equal to or like Surround?

waggs098

waggs098

Super Member
I have a small 2 channel system that I like the tonal qualities of. Also I have a 7.1 surround system that I like to listen to certain music on.

The 7.1 system just doesn't seem to have the "timber" that I like for certain songs but the clarity seems to be there. On the 2 channel system the timber seems to be great but certain sounds don't seem to be as pronounced as they should be.

On the 7.1 system the sounds from each speaker seem to blend well but there's just something missing. On the 2 channel they seem to blend better from left to right but there just isn't the feeling of "openness" like the 7.1 system.

One song I will refer to is "In the Air Tonight" by Phil Collins. On the 2 channel when he sings the lines "well I remember" and "we ever met" there isn't "impact" like there is on the 7.1. The surround is great on this song. On the 2 channel there's just some sound that is missing during those lines.

There is also other music I like better on the 2 channel or better on the7.1

I guess, based on the song I mentioned, is it possible to get the same "soundstage" I get from the 7.1.

Like the title says "Is Soundstage anything like Surround"?
 
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Can be, there's been plenty of times watching movies in two channel I've had helicopters fly over my head and disappear behind me.

The big difference is when moving out of the sweet spot, without a dedicated center channel dialogue that should be centered on the screen will be off to whatever side the listener is on.

As for music, I much prefer two channel sweet spot or not. And yes two channel can be very holographic in a way surround just can't replicate.
 
Understand that for the vast majority of studio produced massively multi-miked recordings, the concept of soundstage is completely contrived. With seven channels, you have more knobs you can turn and more tricks to play. And most of them are synthesized out of nothing.

I prefer well recorded two channel recordings for the most part, but true five channel classical recordings where the back channels truly represent actual hall ambience do provide the highest level of realism to me.
 
"Soundstage", as I understand it, is the audible depth and breadth of a recording. A well-presented soundstage may often even lend itself to a mental image of instrument placement (but not necessarily).
Surround, on the other hand, is a deliberate attempt to provide a placement for various sounds relative to the listener. They are not the same thing.

My experience has been that my ear gets used to certain things over time. Like eating sugar too often and losing the taste for veggies, listening to a lot of "impactful" sounds (like movies and heavily-eq'd music) can make more subtle presentations seem lacking. Sometimes I have to take a break from everything for a short time, then let my ear re-acclimate. Once I got hip to this sort of thing I found I much prefer stereo for stereo recordings. There are plenty of things I can do to improve that if it still seems lacking.
 
First, figure out in what frequencies they sound different. For this get familiar with the frequencies - listen to a log sweep from 5 to 20000Hz a couple of times. Play it on both systems a couple times.

Tell us where what system seems quieter. The frequency response of a system defines the timbre.
 
JoeESP9 said:
No, not IME.

From the Audio Glossary via Stereophile:
soundstaging, soundstage presentation The accuracy with which a reproducing system conveys audible information about the size, shape, and acoustical characteristics of the original recording space and the placement of the performers within it.
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/sounds-audio-glossary-glossary-r-s#bEC4shLluhP9UC3v.99
Click to expand...

While I'd agree they are not necessarily synonymous terms, they can and do, IMO, share often similar traits.

If in the surround sound material a helicopter flys overhead and that's what you hear (and perhaps see in the case of a movie) I'd say the soundstage is represented. Not materially different to me than if the bass player is in a certain place on stage and that's where it seems to come from in playback.
 
I like surround for music.
Perhaps I've just never experienced the right stereo amp...ahem

But, I have the opposite effect as my stereo setting is a smidge brighter than my (same amp and speakers) surround setting.

I've compensated with minor eq adjustments and pre-amp/cartridge choices.

IMO, every amp will sound slightly different and this could account for differences in "clarity".

Something I have noticed, when in stereo mode, if I sit on the edge of the sound field, the far side is just farther away BUT in surround mode it gives me the impression I've just repositioned within the sound field and the music is still around me.
I like that.
 
Seems like a 2 channel system that can produce a helicopter fly overhead towards the rear of the room is more an illusion generated by the mind whereas the surround system helicopter sound is actually back there. The former must have everything right to pull it off.
 
Alobar said:
Seems like a 2 channel system that can produce a helicopter fly overhead towards the rear of the room is more an illusion generated by the mind whereas the surround system helicopter sound is actually back there. The former must have everything right to pull it off.
Click to expand...
It is true that a 2 channel receiver can not reproduce a surround image, but modern AVRs can do it with 2 speakers. They use delays to produce a virtual surround. For a short while, I used my Yamaha AVR in 3.0 mode and was amazed that it did a pretty good job of simulating the rear surround effect.
 
I think the definition you are looking for is "holographic" in two channel which equals surround in seven channels? Depending on the music one is able to paint a picture. Music in two channels sometimes takes on a three dimensional tone in sound & vision. I'm sure seven channels can to which leads us into soundstage
 
i have been using dynaquad for decades with all sound formats (LP, cd, radio, tv, etc) . just find some neutral sounding speakers for the rears, small ones are more than adequate. i use minimus 7s. the sound of the recording space, real or electronic, enhances/completes the sound. it's in the recording already in stereo so this is a much less demanding, less costly alternative to relying on a surround processor and only requires a stereo amplifier (already built in to receivers and integrated amps).

adjust the rear channels to a level that you can barely detect in stereo. some experimentation is warranted with rear speaker positioning and orientation but not mandatory. live recordings benefit a lot from dynaquad as do electronic music such as Tomita records (he knew that we were out here and processed the sound accordingly). if the rear speakers are drawing attention to themselves, reduce their level. again, experimentation will help you.

most people do not realize they are listening to rear channels until you turn them off.

in stereo, many recordings will seem like surround if your speakers are capable of good imaging. adding the dynaquad is the natural extension and SOUNDS natural, not contrived.
 
What your describing could apply to different 2 channel systems. Its all in the way different components interface to gether and with the listening space. Speakers usually have the greatest influence on sound production, followed by the room. That said the way electronic components combine with speakers is usually of a much more refined in scope. HT systems are designed to deliver the entire production of signal into a very dead acoustical space. The producers want to control every facet of the sound reproduction. Both direct and ambient sound, so a dead room works best for HT. Stereo systems have always had to work with the room they are placed in to create the over all sound experience. Tw o different types of systems for two totally different types of acoustical spaces. So yes the HT system will extract and reproduce ambience better than a Stereo system. Where a good Stereo system has to be interfaced with a room properly for best performance. So depending on your room you may have the wrong speakers. You have to decide which system is most important first. Then decide to change the room or speakers to get the optimum performance for that system. Once thats done. Then you tackle the second system. Changing the speakers to get the best compromise. It can be a daunting task. Unless you have a Man cave for the systems, where you change the room acoustics changing speakers will be the only answer. Just changing the tonality of a system won't change how a speaker interfaces with the acoustic of a room for the best final result.

Then again changing .seating and speaker locations maybe the easy answer A little closer to the speakers for one system and further away for the other system. Your will have to invest a lot of time, taking notes and learning to listen and co-ordinate which changes give the best final result with each system.

My speakers were chosen for a Stereo system first. But as I prefer a system that is more detailed minimizing room effects for stereo reproduction, when added the HT system all I had to do was soften the room just a touch and controlling the reflections off the back wall and floors. Fortunately, low boys speakers 1/2 the size of the main speakers were available for the center and rears and 1/4 size book shelf speakers from the same company using the same drivers for the side speakers. You might say the same thing is possible using JBL, Tannoy, or Klipsch. But none use the same drivers just increasing the number of drivers and size of enclosure to increase capability of each speaker system. My compromise was cutting the center speaker in half. Same sound, but 3 db less dynamic capability. The center channel should be equal to the fronts if not more capable.
 
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