I'd be curious if anyone ever measured (via capture) the resonance of their cartridge/Black Widow arm, to see if the resonance is as high as would perhaps be predicted.
Is the Black Widow that good?
- Thread starter MitsuMan
- Start date
I'd be curious if anyone ever measured (via capture) the resonance of their cartridge/Black Widow arm, to see if the resonance is as high as would perhaps be predicted.
Interesting thought, but unless it's been done recently I don't think there was quite as much concern/discussion amongst most of us mortals back when this arm was in its heyday. The other major variable that might get lost amongst the math (and the math is settled for the most part and important) is the type of deck it's mounted to, along with how the cartridge is set up, along with a few other things specific to the exact cartridge being used.
Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
The cartridge weight is part of the calculation and important so one can determine if it can be used on some tonearms without mods. Some do come with additional weights to broaden the range of cartridges that will work with the arm.
Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
What are some of that concerns about the deck and cartridge set up?
Suspended or not, how well was the armboard fitted and attached, what was the stylus profile, etc. My point is that there may be some cases where the math didn't fully account for some combinations that might have been pretty good albeit not on paper.
Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
According to the math, VE chart, a 15 gram cartridge with an 11 cu will work and when you get down to a 5 gram cartridge the cu goes up to 24. So not an impossible set of circumstances to get a cartridge to work on the arm. I see folks talking about 10Hz but VE goes from 8-11 in the green zone. Since we are trying to avoid record warp, 0-6Hz or so and lowest notes on records at 16 for those perfect organ records or 20 Hz for the general public, I don't see a need to nail that 10Hz with everything.
Then the later versions of the 5 or so I know about of the ∞BW with damping can possibly accommodate a wider range or cartridges. But the BW is one of the most limited because if its low mass and limited cartridge weight.
The 5 versions I've seen are Aluminum stepped, Graphite stepped, Graphite tapered, Graphite tapered front-mounted damping trough, Graphite tapered rear-mounted damping trough.
@MitsuMan I was hoping for guidance as I have suspended/not as well as armboards that can be fitted and attached as well as a few different nail shapes. Right now the BW sits with an XLM II but it will get others.
Then the later versions of the 5 or so I know about of the ∞BW with damping can possibly accommodate a wider range or cartridges. But the BW is one of the most limited because if its low mass and limited cartridge weight.
The 5 versions I've seen are Aluminum stepped, Graphite stepped, Graphite tapered, Graphite tapered front-mounted damping trough, Graphite tapered rear-mounted damping trough.
@MitsuMan I was hoping for guidance as I have suspended/not as well as armboards that can be fitted and attached as well as a few different nail shapes. Right now the BW sits with an XLM II but it will get others.
LP-THORN
Super Member
Correct.What I meant was that the cartridge weight alone (without knowing or taking compliance into account) is not useful,as there are cartridges with same weight and very different compliances. That is why I said about Total effective mass , ( tonearm, cartridge, screws, nuts.......) , and compliance.
When tonearm manufacturer recommends cartridges of 3-8 g weight, most probably they mean that the counterweight of the tonearm works well within that range.
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Pio1980
AK Member
The photos didn't show me the roller guide systems in sufficient detail, so I am going by memory of seeing such in previous promotional materials. Iirc, the Souther fused quartz rail based arms were the lower cost models, the slotted tube models the higher priced end.
Pio1980
AK Member
I'm pretty sure the TT5 is a two point bearing tube tracking guide type. I cannot find a decent pic from the rear showing how the arm hangs on the roller carriage.
Agreed. Upon closer examination, so is the TT-1. The TT-2 and TT-3, however, both have visible races for traveling across the rails like mine:
Pio1980
AK Member
Maybe I'm confused by your term "slotted tube". I have the original documentation and the only reference to a "tube" is for the tone arm itself. The arm assembly travels across the quartz track.
What I see with the TT-2 and TT-3 is a similar quartz track that operates identically to ours. Just more massive structure to support the arm.
What I see with the TT-2 and TT-3 is a similar quartz track that operates identically to ours. Just more massive structure to support the arm.
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Pio1980
AK Member
The drawing is indeed the Souther system, with the triple roller carriage and jeweled vertical gimbal. The Cantus slotted tube system has a twin roller carriage coupled rearward out of a slotted glass tube without the vertical gimbal.Maybe I'm confused by your term "slotted tube". I have the original documentation and the only reference to a "tube" is for the tone arm itself. The arm assembly travels across the quartz track.
Slotted tube:
What I see with the TT-2 and TT-3 is a similar quartz track that operates identically to ours. Just more massive structure to support the arm.
Cantus slotted tube guide track.
I think the TQ series to be Souther type, the TT series Cantus based from what I can see.
Nonetheless, intriguing both, carrying the lowest possible mass concept forward from the Vestigal and Black Widow to a simple passive linear tracking arm.
Fwiw, the very low mass active tracking Linatrack system that Revox adopted doesn't use an arm as such, more a unipivot gimballed counterbalanced cartridge carrier.
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user510
Active Member
I used the HFN 001 test record to run a resonance check on the sonus blue/bw setup In the review linked below. That pair up resulted in a 9hz arm/cartridge resonance.
"The Infinity Black Widow tonearm used in this arm mates well with the Sonus Blue. Together they measure an arm/cartridge resonance at 9 hz. (HFN 001 test record - side 2, band 2) Nicely in the "happy zone". "
https://www.theanalogdept.com/sonus_blue.htm
-Steve
But can you say that in German?
Pio1980
AK Member
I left out "magnetically stabilized",But can you say that in German?
an even better mouthful.
Looking at the pix, can you figure out how it works?
I can almost remember, it's been a while since I fooled with one.
How does one ever change cartridges with the lead wires that are about as big as one human strand of hair? I'm not going to even try at this point. I have a medium speed Grado in it .I've always had a strange obsession and desire to own an Infinity Black Widow tonearm. So this many years later what does the collective brain trust of AK think of it? And specifically the later version with the graphite tube not the early aluminum tube which was prone to breakage.
