Is the Tuner the Underappreciated Component ?

[PeterFCassidy]

It's weird. I love the radio. It's the reason, in part, that I bought my first receiver. The tuner on that Legendary beastie, an auld Nikko, just pounced on those weak college-band stations and pulled them into the room. The receiver on the Legendary Sansui G8000 is very good but I got to tell you this Nikko tuner I picked up, again a Nikko, the Legendary NT-950 is just superb. Symphonic stuff just soars and jazz and blues feels like I am in the room with the musicians during live studio broadcasts (yes, Boston colleges still do that) or during broadcast of good recordings. Why is it that all the other forums are lit up with new discussions all day and the Tuner forum is sometimes so moribund? Are tuners out of style temporarily? Has quality of programming in FM radio discouraged listeners? I'll ask the Man-Gods here: Is the Tuner the Great Underappreciated Component?

Peter

 

[Justen]

Well, I hardly qualify as a "man-god", not even a "man semi-god"- although I have been referred to as plastic deity (I'll let ya'll figure that on out!), but I think that the lack of quality music has put a damper on tuner interest. It certainly has for me, in my area. We've got a couple of decent public radio stations, but not much else!

 

[Yamaha B-2]

Definitely. The problem with FM is it is getting more difficult all the time to find decent broadcasts. We are lucky in the Philadelphia area to have a few good ones with decent formats (all are college based). But smaller markets seem to have only the BS 'schlock jocks' and repetitive programming. To say nothing of their horrible compressed broadcasting. Once upon a time.......FM was an excellent medium most everywhere. But, with our stupid corporate folks running the FCC (Colin Powells ass-kissing son (now gone), Clear Channel, Ibiquity, and who is that horrible Australian who owns Fox?) we will be lucky if decent FM actually survives the advent of HD radio (talk about crap sound - almost as bad as satellite). So, yes, the tuner is the most under appreciated piece of gear. But, unfortunately, there is a reason. All the above. That said, I have four (4) wonderful FM tunrs: Sony ST-5000FW and ST-J75, Yamaha T-2 and CT-7000. The two Sonys have been refurb'd (recap and alignment - thank you Punker X and dr*audio), the T-2 is out being refurb'd and the CT-7000 will be refurb'd later this year. If I lived out in the hinterland with no decent FM available, they would not have been treated so well. At least not by me. I think good FM is great. Probably 50% of my listening is FM. The original and only Maria Callas "Live From the Metropolitan Opera" was on today. Original master tape from 1956 in a mono broadcast. Donizetti's "Lucia Di Lammermoor". Terrific stuff. :thmbsp: :yes:

 

[Whitehall]

It often takes more time, investment, and thought in finding and receiving good FM signal - both in technical quality and content quality - than in other music media. Pickout a tuner, install an antenna, find the stations.

Plus, there has been less commercial impetus to deliver high quality as the major listener hours are drive time. This has been a vicious circle.

Hopefully, satellite radio will change the economics of FM broadcast and move us into "the long tail" where finding and delivering to niches makes economic sense.

 

[reggaenaut]

Definitely. The problem with FM is it is getting more difficult all the time to find decent broadcasts. We are lucky in the Philadelphia area to have a few good ones with decent formats (all are college based). But smaller markets seem to have only the BS 'schlock jocks' and repetitive programming. To say nothing of their horrible compressed broadcasting. Once upon a time.......FM was an excellent medium most everywhere. But, with our stupid corporate folks running the FCC (Colin Powells ass-kissing son (now gone), Clear Channel, Ibiquity, and who is that horrible Australian who owns Fox?) we will be lucky if decent FM actually survives the advent of HD radio (talk about crap sound - almost as bad as satellite). So, yes, the tuner is the most under appreciated piece of gear. But, unfortunately, there is a reason. All the above. That said, I have four (4) wonderful FM tunrs: Sony ST-5000FW and ST-J75, Yamaha T-2 and CT-7000. The two Sonys have been refurb'd (recap and alignment - thank you Punker X and dr*audio), the T-2 is out being refurb'd and the CT-7000 will be refurb'd later this year. If I lived out in the hinterland with no decent FM available, they would not have been treated so well. At least not by me. I think good FM is great. Probably 50% of my listening is FM. The original and only Maria Callas "Live From the Metropolitan Opera" was on today. Original master tape from 1956 in a mono broadcast. Donizetti's "Lucia Di Lammermoor". Terrific stuff. :thmbsp: :yes:

I had to work and miss Maria. I am fortunate to have a superb fm station in my area and because of this I am going to restore my Scott tube tuner.

 

[Mark W.]

I love my tuner so much I have two and a third being all tuned up right now.

But then I love my KGON 92.3 FM Classic rock Station

And obviously my Pioneer TX-9100 tuners.

 

[bastek]

I'm not happy with my tuner's audio quality anymore. Analog FM doesn't have what it takes to compete with new digital transmitting technologies. Contrary to what is said here, my Dish receiver has a better quality audio than any of my FM tuners, but only if i use the optical output ( analog output on these receivers is meant for TV audio use). Also matrix info displays are better to look at, than frozen frequency numbers with signal bars. Fm will follow NTSC (or PAL) destiny. Slowly but surely will go. But i will always love my Tuners for the quality of construction, and the memories that gone with them.

 

[JimJ[VT]]

Has quality of programming in FM radio discouraged listeners?

Yes.

Put simply, it sucks around here. If I want to listen to worthwhile programming, I'll find something on shortwave...the FM band locally has turned into The Justin Timberlake Show and a bunch of three-word "rock" groups that all have the same whiny sound.

 

[Yamaha B-2]

I'm not happy with my tuner's audio quality anymore. Analog FM doesn't have what it takes to compete with new digital transmitting technologies. Contrary to what is said here, my Dish receiver has a better quality audio than any of my FM tuners, but only if i use the optical output ( analog output on these receivers is meant for TV audio use). Also matrix info displays are better to look at, than frozen frequency numbers with signal bars. Fm will follow NTSC (or PAL) destiny. Slowly but surely will go. But i will always love my Tuners for the quality of construction, and the memories that gone with them.

At the present level of digital broadcast (the best is still lower in quality than MP3) if you find that your analog FM reception is less satisfying than digital you have a weak link in your FM chain. Either a poor tuner, poorly aligned good tuner, poor antenna or poor broadcasting at the station's end. Even though restricted to 15kHz at the top and 40Hz at the bottom, good analog FM broadcasts contain many times the information in digital broadcasts. Simply a 'state-of-the-art' fact at the moment. And, this will remain true for the foreseeable future, until the codec's used in digital broadcasts are written to include more information. All of which costs money. Lots of money.

 

[Brian]

I think the most underappreciated component in a music system is the antenna. To me the tuner is like a turntable and the antenna like a cartridge. Why would anyone buy a $30,000 turntable and then throw on a $10 cartridge. Rather than swapping and throwing money at the tuner get that antenna up to snuff. Nothing more laughable than going to see a system and seeing a Day Squerra in a basement system with a folded dipole attached and lying there crumbled up.

 

[OvenMaster]

... I think that the lack of quality music has put a damper on tuner interest. It certainly has for me, in my area. We've got a couple of decent public radio stations, but not much else!

Bingo. I looked for a great tuner cheap so that I could finally pull in Connecticut Public Radio for their legendary classical programming, got it, and after a few months they switched to all-talk. :thumbsdn: I hardly listen to FM anymore. FM used to be fun.
"Unappreciated"? No. "Useless"? Potentially, depending on your market and personal tastes.
Tom

 

[tankdonovan]

At the present level of digital broadcast (the best is still lower in quality than MP3) if you find that your analog FM reception is less satisfying than digital you have a weak link in your FM chain. Either a poor tuner, poorly aligned good tuner, poor antenna or poor broadcasting at the station's end. Even thought restricted to 15kHz at the top and 40Hz at the bottom, good analog FM broadcasts contain many times the information in digital broadcasts. Simply a 'state-of-the-art' fact at the moment. And, this will remain true for the foreseeable future, until the codec's used in digital broadcasts are written to include more information. All of which costs money. Lots of money.

I agree, I agree! :yes: :yes:

I love FM and here in my area we are blessed with several good FM stations. And I don`t need much of an antenna to pull them in. The quality is great. Not as good as most LPs but well worth listening to.

TankDonovan

 

[WhiteSE]

I love tuners as well....Terry fixed my Altec and its a tremendous unit...my Ampex and MR-71 are going next....I think that tuners are a cheaper way to play with different gear.

I have a great NPR quad of local stations in south GA...

 

[reggaenaut]

I am so sorry to hear about your station OvenMaster. That is terrible!

 

[Yamaha B-2]

I think the most underappreciated component in a music system is the antenna. To me the tuner is like a turntable and the antenna like a cartridge. Why would anyone buy a $30,000 turntable and then throw on a $10 cartridge. Rather than swapping and throwing money at the tuner get that antenna up to snuff. Nothing more laughable than going to see a system and seeing a Day Squerra in a basement system with a folded dipole attached and lying there crumbled up.

Amen!! Get that $24 Radio Shack FM specific yagi (part number 15-2163) and $15 worth of terminated RG-6 (also from RS) and put it up in place of whatever antenna you are currently using. You will be amazed at the improvement. Then get it as high as you can (on its own mast is best, but mine is in the attic - even bolted to your ceiling works well and you can simply reach up and "point" it to your favorite stations). The first step in your chain is the antenna. Make sure it is a good one.

 

[PeterFCassidy]

Interesting - How Much Can an Attena Help ?

I wonder if people in programmatically challenged areas can reach far enough with big honking antennas to make a difference. In Boston, on really cold notes you can get Canadian stations on the AM. At least you could when I was in grammar school and lived on the fourth floor of a four-story building.

What is the maximum distance available to an FM listener?

Peter

 

[Yamaha B-2]

Decent yagi antenna (there are not all created equal) like the Radio shack will get you about 80-100 miles on a tuner with decent sensitivity/selectivity. The Winegards will do better and the top APS (14' long) will go even further. The RS antenna is $24, the Winegards are up to $200 and the big APS is $280, if I recall correctly. Folks who DX (highly sensitive tuners with special narrow filters - generally highly mod'd tuners) reach out hundreds of miles. But, the narrow filters will make the sonics less than spectacular.

 

[Brian]

With my Philips 6731 on AM and a 50' wire, I've picked up Boston from Toronto a couple of times. Have not really done and DX'ing with it but had played a couple of times to see if it had some pulling power.

In theory, FM is line of sight that was defined as a maximum of 60 - 75 miles. Years ago with a totl Jerrold on a rotor mounted on top of a 6 story building, I could reasonably reach 100 - 125 miles with my 10b. On a few nights, I reached from Portsmouth NH to NYC but it was quite rare and in those days the skylines were lower, electrical far fewer and atmosphere a lot cleaner.

 

[PeterFCassidy]

But What About Indoor - or Windowsill Options ?

Amazing - but I heard more about that kinda reach with AM - stations like WBZ that seemed to reach everywhere. I wonder if more AKers would care about tuners if they knew they could command the content they have available with antenna technology. I mean, hey, I am not far from a lot of sizable cities here - many of them with heavily populated FM 'college bands'. If could get a handful of them, I'd be in DX heaven. Boston and Cambridge have a solid college band of great stations from 88.1 to 95.3. But I wonder what they're up to, you know, in the wild frontiers of Connecticut and Rhode Island. Right now, I am using a pair of rabbit ears from The Shack and I can vacuum up everything inside of Boston and Cambridge. Any indoor options open to me? Window sill options? It's freezing - finally winter here - and I don't feel like futzing with stuff on the roof right about now. -pfc

With my Philips 6731 on AM and a 50' wire, I've picked up Boston from Toronto a couple of times. Have not really done and DX'ing with it but had played a couple of times to see if it had some pulling power.

In theory, FM is line of sight that was defined as a maximum of 60 - 75 miles. Years ago with a totl Jerrold on a rotor mounted on top of a 6 story building, I could reasonably reach 100 - 125 miles with my 10b. On a few nights, I reached from Portsmouth NH to NYC but it was quite rare and in those days the skylines were lower, electrical far fewer and atmosphere a lot cleaner.

 

[Yamaha B-2]

Do you have a crawl space or attic above you ceiling that you can access? All of these yagi antennas have folding elements, so even a small opening can easily accomodate getting the antenna into the space. Then you simply unfold the elements. And, you can simply lay it on the insulation or other non-conducting surface and it will work fine. Just point the main spar (all the elements are mounted on it) end with the smallest element towards the source you want to listen to. If you want it in the attic or crawl space with a rotator, mount the rotator from the roof joists so the antenna hangs from it.