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Is there any point in keeping "Vintage DACs"?????

gvl said:
The advances were made and (well-designed) modern DACs technically deliver a magnitude better performance than 90s gear.
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The only real advances are in THD numbers and interfacing (USB). The D/A in question was already at actual 20bit resolution (we are only really just near 21 now), ruler flat, offered superb channel separation, perfect S/N and THD so low it is irrelevant.

Put a USB to SPDIF interface upstream and all is well.

But sometimes, it's fun to get a new toy, I undertand that.
 
Modern DACs tend to be better at dealing with external jitter, so depending how bad your source is some improvements can be gained in that area as well.
 
If you're talking USB, don't forget the other end of the connection ...

paul-pang-usb.jpg


Not a fan of the typical S/PDIF. Spec hasn't changed in decades and implementation on the typical computer tends to be pretty much a crapshoot. Both optical and coaxial outperform USB on my setup if you go by the numbers, but sound quality and listening pleasure of USB runs rings around the so called high end connections.
 
gvl said:
Modern DACs tend to be better at dealing with external jitter, so depending how bad your source is some improvements can be gained in that area as well.
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For the 700 I'm using a Denon 2910 DVD/CD player as the source most of the time but occasionally use the optical connection with my Bluetooth receiver for playing Pandora or other streaming music services. The MSB is being used with one of those Sony 300 CD players when I am doing casual listening and just want some background music. It really is almost an afterthought because I didn't really need it once I got the 700.
 
i have a Numbercruncher 205 whatever from back in the day when somebody was blowin' em on Ebay, and still sounds great to me- i have no idea what chip is in it, either
 
botrytis said:
A DAC is more than just the chip. It is the whole design.

My answer is - it depends.
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This. ^^^^^

The Audio Research DAC3 is a perfect example. It's around 20 years old, but still a highly desirable DAC with a quad 6922 tube complement. I've owned the newer, DAC5. I would take another one in second. ARC does a great job getting the power supply right and engineering with a holistic approach.
 
Hey guys, I'm looking for a Parasound D/AC-1500 so knock it off with all the accolades. My D/AC-1000 made a believer out of me, now I want the 1500 as it has balanced outputs. Any of these units are getting harder to find and not as cheap as they once were.

BillWojo
 
techguy0192 said:
The Audio Research DAC3 is a perfect example. It's around 20 years old, but still a highly desirable DAC with a quad 6922 tube complement. I've owned the newer, DAC5. I would take another one in second.
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The DAC3 is 2x PCM63P-K.
The DAC5 is 2x AD1862N-J.

Both are highly respected DAC chips in their own rights,and both have their own groups that still enjoy them despite their age.
Most folks that own & enjoy DACs using these chips have little to no desire to hunt down the latest & greatest DAC.
And yeah most people that own those DACS would buy another in a heartbeat if a nice one presented itself.

Like I said I currently own 2x ~ D/AC-1000 and I'd scoop up an Adcom GDA in a heartbeat.

FWIW

Bret P.
 
BillWojo said:
Hey guys, I'm looking for a Parasound D/AC-1500 so knock it off with all the accolades. My D/AC-1000 made a believer out of me, now I want the 1500 as it has balanced outputs. Any of these units are getting harder to find and not as cheap as they once were.

BillWojo
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DOH !!! Sorry 'bout that...

Your comments kinda echo what I've been thinking too,but it's hard not to sing these vintage DACs praises.
Especially seeing as I'm largely broke these days and I need them to "stay under the radar" till funds recover further.

Good luck on the D/AC-1500 hunt,I know that one is on my "wanted" list as well.
It's a good thing I'm broke right now as we wont be in competition against each other should one pop-up.

:cool:

Bret P.
 
shrinkboy said:
i have a Numbercruncher 205 whatever from back in the day when somebody was blowin' em on Ebay, and still sounds great to me- i have no idea what chip is in it, either
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The Entech Number Cruncher 205.2 uses the CS4329-KP (Crystal Semiconductor).
It's a 20 bit delta sigma DAC.

Me I'm an r2r sorta guy,so the delta sigma DACs dont really hold much interest for me personally.
But that does'nt really mean much other than I'm into a different "flavor" of DAC that's all.

HTH

Bret P.
 
One last comment before I go...

The thing about the implementation "caveat" is that often the better DAC chips were going to be given a better implementation as SOP.
Chips like the PCM63 were'nt exactly "cheap chips" when new,so most DAC makers using them were trying their best to do them justice.

Sure some implementations were better than others,that's just a fact of making something as complicated as these are.
But most all DAC's using something like the PCM63 chips were gonna be better overall than DACs using "lesser" chips.

So hunt for the good "chips" and generally speaking you'll find some pretty good DACs as a result.

JMO ~ FWIW

Bret P.
 
I actually picked up a second D/AC-1000 on Ebay, doesn't work, error light will not go out and it won't pass music. Looks like something is pulling one of the PS voltages down. I need to get back into it.
The good is that I was given a full refund and the seller didn't want it back.

BillWojo
 
BillWojo said:
I actually picked up a second D/AC-1000 on Ebay, doesn't work, error light will not go out and it won't pass music. Looks like something is pulling one of the PS voltages down. I need to get back into it.
The good is that I was given a full refund and the seller didn't want it back.

BillWojo
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I would kinda dig having something like that happen,it would be the perfect unit to use as a "experimental" unit.
Yeah diagnose the fault first and then I'd go ahead pull the PCB and install op-amp sockets for sure.
That opens the door for some serious op-amp rolling,including the potential to move to discretes.
Then you could decide if you wanna try the audiotuning 24/96 mod or not.

IIRC one of the discrete op-amp co.s (SparkoS Labs I believe) also offers an upgraded discrete voltage regulator.
So that mod may be worth investigating as well.

My concern is that I'd hate to mess with one of my working units for fear of it ending up non-operative.
If I had already had done so on another unit I'm sure I'd have a lot more confidence in making changes like that to my "good" units.

But I digress...

HTH

Bret P.
 
I liked my D/AC-1000 but it has been shelved for the time being. The project I have in mind is to add a USB input with one of these neat boards, and to get rid of the DF1700 filter. This will let me run an external high quality digital filter such as HQ Player into the DAC at 8x or maybe even 16x oversampling with proper dithering to 20 bits. This will also allow me to bypass the older jitter-prone SPDIF receiver chip and clock the DAC from the async USB oscillators and allow for hi-res into the DAC without that expensive German 24/96 retrofit kit.
 
I bought my 1st R2R NOS dac last week and have fallen in love with it's sound. So, on a whim and after looking at many reviews(all of which were almost 100% positive) I bought a GDA 600 and am anxiously awaiting it's arrival!
 
Madbugger said:
I bought my 1st R2R NOS dac last week and have fallen in love with it's sound. So, on a whim and after looking at many reviews(all of which were almost 100% positive) I bought a GDA 600 and am anxiously awaiting it's arrival!
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Congrats I am sure you will enjoy it! I have that the main difference between the 600 and 700 is that the 700 has the HDCD chip.
 
Wolverine said:
Per the Stereophile review of a couple of years ago;

The decoded digital data signal is then applied to the Pacific Microsonics HDCD decoder chip, the output of which feeds a pair of 20-bit Burr-Brown PCM1702 D/A chips. The Adcom's output stage features class-A–biased, direct-coupled, proprietary op-amps that achieve low levels of noise and distortion.
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/adcom-gda-700-da-processor#i41FQgmSK6Lzhxmh.99
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Honestly, I think thats always the bottom line with older gear,
if it sounds good, it IS good! (line lifted from P.D.Q Bach - but its true.)

So from that Stereopile read, sounds like I'm doing great keeping my Audio Alchemy DDE3 DAC, which sounds great to my aging ears (and has the HDCD decoder).
I feed the output of my Oppo directly to a preamp so I can use it for SACDs and such, and feed the other output through the DDE3 for HDCDs and such.

AudioAlchemyDDE-v3_9274.jpg
 
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