Is there any point in keeping "Vintage DACs"?????

[hjames]

Per the Stereophile review of a couple of years ago;

The decoded digital data signal is then applied to the Pacific Microsonics HDCD decoder chip, the output of which feeds a pair of 20-bit Burr-Brown PCM1702 D/A chips. The Adcom's output stage features class-A–biased, direct-coupled, proprietary op-amps that achieve low levels of noise and distortion.
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/adcom-gda-700-da-processor#i41FQgmSK6Lzhxmh.99

Honestly, I think thats always the bottom line with older gear,
if it sounds good, it IS good! (line lifted from P.D.Q Bach - but its true.)

So from that Stereopile read, sounds like I'm doing great keeping my Audio Alchemy DDE3 DAC, which sounds great to my aging ears (and has the HDCD decoder).
I feed the output of my Oppo directly to a preamp so I can use it for SACDs and such, and feed the other output through the DDE3 for HDCDs and such.

 

[Wolverine]

Honestly, I think thats always the bottom line with older gear,
if it sounds good, it IS good! (line lifted from P.D.Q Bach - but its true.)

So from that Stereopile read, sounds like I'm doing great keeping my Audio Alchemy DDE3 DAC, which sounds great to my aging ears (and has the HDCD decoder).
I feed the output of my Oppo directly to a preamp so I can use it for SACDs and such, and feed the other output through the DDE3 for HDCDs and such.

View attachment 1538145

Heather - Maybe I am not understanding your answer regarding your Oppo. Do you have it connected to your preamp and your DAC at the same time? If so how how do you have it setup?

 

[hjames]

Heather - Maybe I am not understanding your answer regarding your Oppo. Do you have it connected to your preamp and your DAC at the same time? If so how how do you have it setup?

Yes, both at the same time. There are 3 outputs, coaxial (looks like an rca phono cable), Optical, and twin rca stereo analog outs.
So, the (analog) stereo RCA out of the Oppo goes directly to the "DVD" ports on the preamp - thats for DVDs, SACD, and similar sources.
broadband out of the Oppo for HDCD and digital direct comes out on the Coaxial into the DAC. Analog out of the DAC goes into the CD input on the preamp. I think thats got it.

 

[Wolverine]

Yes, both at the same time. There are 3 outputs, coaxial (looks like an rca phono cable), Optical, and twin rca stereo analog outs.
So, the (analog) stereo RCA out of the Oppo goes directly to the "DVD" ports on the preamp - thats for DVDs, SACD, and similar sources.
broadband out of the Oppo for HDCD and digital direct comes out on the Coaxial into the DAC. Analog out of the DAC goes into the CD input on the preamp. I think thats got it.

Thanks! So as long as you don’t have the DAC on at the same time you are playing the Oppo through the preamp you don’t have any issues?

 

[slow_jazz]

I've been using a broken Denon DVD-5000 for my dac for years.

Picked it up cheap because the dvd part broke but the dac part sounds vey good to me.

 

[hjames]

Thanks! So as long as you don’t have the DAC on at the same time you are playing the Oppo through the preamp you don’t have any issues?

Well, they feed different inputs on the preamp, so if the DAC is on or off doesn't really matter if its not the selected input.

 

[Wolverine]

Well, they feed different inputs on the preamp, so if the DAC is on or off doesn't really matter if its not the selected input.

Thanks Heather!
I have the Denon 2910 now using both outputs based on your suggestion. Much easier than having a separate source for the DAC and separate source for SACD playback.

 

[Wolverine]

Tried seeing how my Oppo 981 would sound with the 700 and for some reason they just don’t want to get along. The sound cuts out periodically and when I play a HDCD disc the 700 does not pick up that it is a HDCD title.

 

[red 111]

Tried seeing how my Oppo 981 would sound with the 700 and for some reason they just don’t want to get along. The sound cuts out periodically and when I play a HDCD disc the 700 does not pick up that it is a HDCD title.

same thing happens to my Adcom GDA 700 when attached to my Marantz CC 4000OSE 5 changer...HDCD never lights up...but sounds fine otherwise.

 

[drumbum]

Don't feel the need to get rid of my Sony DAS-R1 with it's TDA1541's.

Definitely vintage.

 

[gvl]

Don't feel the need to get rid of my Sony DAS-R1 with it's TDA1541's.

Definitely vintage.

I don't blame you, these are rare.

 

[sturgus]

I have 2 dac's that I still use. Cal Alpha, Musical Design Dac-1. They both have had some P/S mods. I love both of them. I really have a soft spot for the CAL it just sounds good.

 

[Madbugger]

So, I have had the GDA 600 for a couple of weeks and I have to say I am very impressed! It sounds wonderful with my Mp 301 tube amp and Dt 880 headphones. I was listening to All Good People from Yes the other night and heard handclaps that after45 years or so of hearing the song never heard before! I know lots of people mod these dacs and I was thinking of swapping opamps but am wondering if it's worth it? I mean it sounds really good as it is.

 

[gvl]

So, I have had the GDA 600 for a couple of weeks and I have to say I am very impressed! It sounds wonderful with my Mp 301 tube amp and Dt 880 headphones. I was listening to All Good People from Yes the other night and heard handclaps that after45 years or so of hearing the song never heard before! I know lots of people mod these dacs and I was thinking of swapping opamps but am wondering if it's worth it? I mean it sounds really good as it is.

I wouldn't bother. People claim all sorts of improvements with op-amp rolling, but in reality you need to have an audio analyzer to fully understand the effects, positive or negative like unwanted oscillation. Plus if your soldering skills are in need of improvement you risk to damage the PCB while doing it as the op-amps are not socketed on the GDA600 afaik.

 

[bimasta]

The Adcom is a fabulous D/A converter. It's measured performance in the Stereophile review is beyond criticism.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/adcom-gda-700-da-processor-measurements

"Overall, the GDA-700 had superlative technical performance. The high channel separation, terrific linearity, excellent noise modulation, and good jitter performance are impressive for a $1000 processor."

I certainly wouldn't be replacing it in a hurry.

I got a GDA-700 three years ago. I don't like Adcom products, but I couldn't resist — it was mint condition and cost a whopping $7. It totally changed my view of Digital, a view I'd held since CDs first appeared. No, it doesn't "sound like vinyl", that's a BS standard of comparison — it just sounds like Music. Real Music, not the freeze-dried version of early digital. It has a Class A output stage designed by N Pass, for what that's worth — I'm not a groupie, but he's one of those audio designers some people worship. The old Redbook standard is fine in my case, so the 700's lack of higher numbers isn't an issue. And BTW, the 700 comes from "The Golden Age" of CD, when it was fully understood and the best minds tried to make the very best machines for it — much like the fabled golden age of vinyl, and its magnificent TTs, tonearms and cartridges.

People who think new "must" be better are — well, I won't finish that sentence, it'll just hurt their feelings or anger them. Some posted that the 700 was "OK for the day" and say rolling op-amps will make it really good. Did they actually DO it, or is it just another opinion based on a rumor they saw on the internet that "must be true"? There's a very long thread here on AK about op-rolling and "improving" the 700 in other ways, chock-full of technical data — and it's a saga of futility.

I did manage to make a dramatic upgrade, simply by using a "digital" cable to connect it to the transport (Coax-to-Coax). An IC doesn't do it. I used a "High End" IC — it even had the word "Digital" printed right on the insulation! But a true dedicated digital cable has different specs and a different design, and it makes a profound difference — and it wasn't even "magic wire", just lying-around-the-house copper — but it was quad-shielded with foil and 3 layers of tightly-woven braid — and what a difference! A real "night and day" difference, like the magazines write about when they move a speaker half-an-inch.

I made the cable myself at home for about 8 bucks in parts, so a "good" one will probably be even better. If you're feeding your DAC through a normal IC, no matter what DAC it is, you're not feeding it, you're starving it.

The Stereophile review Rest-John linked to compared the 700 very favorably to a Mark Levinson DAC that cost 10-times more. So yeah, the 700 is "old" — but would you scoff at an "old' Levinson amp or preamp?

 

[Audiofreak71]

Yes, both at the same time. There are 3 outputs, coaxial (looks like an rca phono cable), Optical, and twin rca stereo analog outs.
So, the (analog) stereo RCA out of the Oppo goes directly to the "DVD" ports on the preamp - thats for DVDs, SACD, and similar sources.
broadband out of the Oppo for HDCD and digital direct comes out on the Coaxial into the DAC. Analog out of the DAC goes into the CD input on the preamp. I think thats got it.

That’s almost exactly how I have my setup with my Oppo (running Roon to it) , Dac and Integrated, sounds excellent that way to me.

Audiofreak71

 

[Audiofreak71]

I’m using a Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 21 Dac, I believe mine was made in 05 and I love the sound.



Audiofreak71

 

[Wolverine]

I got a GDA-700 three years ago. I don't like Adcom products, but I couldn't resist — it was mint condition and cost a whopping $7. It totally changed my view of Digital, a view I'd held since CDs first appeared. No, it doesn't "sound like vinyl", that's a BS standard of comparison — it just sounds like Music. Real Music, not the freeze-dried version of early digital. It has a Class A output stage designed by N Pass, for what that's worth — I'm not a groupie, but he's one of those audio designers some people worship. The old Redbook standard is fine in my case, so the 700's lack of higher numbers isn't an issue. And BTW, the 700 comes from "The Golden Age" of CD, when it was fully understood and the best minds tried to make the very best machines for it — much like the fabled golden age of vinyl, and its magnificent TTs, tonearms and cartridges.

People who think new "must" be better are — well, I won't finish that sentence, it'll just hurt their feelings or anger them. Some posted that the 700 was "OK for the day" and say rolling op-amps will make it really good. Did they actually DO it, or is it just another opinion based on a rumor they saw on the internet that "must be true"? There's a very long thread here on AK about op-rolling and "improving" the 700 in other ways, chock-full of technical data — and it's a saga of futility.

I did manage to make a dramatic upgrade, simply by using a "digital" cable to connect it to the transport (Coax-to-Coax). An IC doesn't do it. I used a "High End" IC — it even had the word "Digital" printed right on the insulation! But a true dedicated digital cable has different specs and a different design, and it makes a profound difference — and it wasn't even "magic wire", just lying-around-the-house copper — but it was quad-shielded with foil and 3 layers of tightly-woven braid — and what a difference! A real "night and day" difference, like the magazines write about when they move a speaker half-an-inch.

I made the cable myself at home for about 8 bucks in parts, so a "good" one will probably be even better. If you're feeding your DAC through a normal IC, no matter what DAC it is, you're not feeding it, you're starving it.

The Stereophile review Rest-John linked to compared the 700 very favorably to a Mark Levinson DAC that cost 10-times more. So yeah, the 700 is "old" — but would you scoff at an "old' Levinson amp or preamp?

Bimasta

Thanks for your response! I'm using a Monster Cable coaxial cable to connect with the Denon 2910. It's one of their better ones ( THX certified for what that is worth) but I am sure I can do better.

A follow up question to everyone who has been kind enough to respond. Since the DAC is doing the processing how big a role does the SQ of the transport play if any? I'm just wondering if there would be any point to upgrading from the 2910.

 

[bimasta]

I'm using a Monster Cable coaxial cable to connect with the Denon 2910. It's one of their better ones ( THX certified for what that is worth) but I am sure I can do better.

The "quality" of the IC isn't the issue — an IC just isn't right for the job. And this isn't a "magic wire" argument, it's engineering. Digital transmission is different from analog, and the cable is different — with a "correct" digital-transfer cable, you'll hear a difference and it won't be subtle.[/QUOTE]

Since the DAC is doing the processing how big a role does the SQ of the transport play if any? I'm just wondering if there would be any point to upgrading from the 2910.

A lot. This really surprised me. I always read that "bits is bits" and any transport will do. But when I installed my DAC, I tried 6 different transports —CD, DVD, multi-players with digital-outs. Two of them were strikingly better than the others, and again it wasn't subtle — like changing from a so-so cartridge on a Turntable to a great one. A dedicated transport-only might be better still, but I don't have one.

So yes, there might "be a point upgrading from the 2910". But I don't want you to just throw money around — do you have any other player to try, or that you can borrow?

 

[Wolverine]

The "quality" of the IC isn't the issue — an IC just isn't right for the job. And this isn't a "magic wire" argument, it's engineering. Digital transmission is different from analog, and the cable is different — with a "correct" digital-transfer cable, you'll hear a difference and it won't be subtle.

A lot. This really surprised me. I always read that "bits is bits" and any transport will do. But when I installed my DAC, I tried 6 different transports —CD, DVD, multi-players with digital-outs. Two of them were strikingly better than the others, and again it wasn't subtle — like changing from a so-so cartridge on a Turntable to a great one. A dedicated transport-only might be better still, but I don't have one.

So yes, there might "be a point upgrading from the 2910". But I don't want you to just throw money around — do you have any other player to try, or that you can borrow?

I have a Yamaha S2700 DVD player that was Yamaha’s flagship player around 08-09. Built like a tank though the drawer sticks occasionally. I have thought about giving it a try and see if it is an improvement.