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is there no vacuum tubed Gulbransen organ?

gogofast

gogofast

Addicted Member
i was looking at the list of organs and side notes of each (i think someone here posted the link to the list long time ago), anyways, i was looking at all the Gulbransen organs, and there isn't one vacuum tubed model ever! is this true? even the ones made in the late 50's are marked as "transistorized individual oscillator".
 
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Yes it is! The company came into existence with the concept that transistors allowed them to build a better and price competitive product. You will never find a tube used in tone generation. You will sometimes find tube amps in external speakers (like Leslies), but in general, unless it was an after-market amplifier modification, these organs will be tube-free.
 
Gulbransen was founded in 1904, made THE first transistorized organ in 1962.

Gulbransen indeed made tubed organs, they're rare compared to other makes of the era. You'll occasionally see 6L6 based Gulbransen organ amplifiers on ebay, the entire organs show up less often. Some of the Gulbransen tube chassis' are copper.

EDIT: i didn't read hmmr7's entire post, he's quite correct about the solid state tone generation, the tubes were limited to the amplifier only, but there are a couple of those early amplifiers that were onboard the organ console, not in a seperate leslie or tone cabinet that DIY guitar amp freaks go banana's for. I don't know how desirable they'd be for audio, but the guitar guys can get a little crazy about them.
 
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i found a pristine Gulbransen theatre organ that has a (2?) leslie tremelo unit(s) inside. do these things even compare as a stand-alone organ? i heard a guy on youtube making some serious b-3 sounds with this thing! my wife is an amateur organ FREAK and i would love to buy her an authentic relic unit that she can FEEL. she is not easily fooled. but this thing has the drawbars, pedals and all of the other bells and whistles of the old hammonds. maybe more! will this be a thing she will cherish? or will it be (eventually aren't they all?) a dust collector? they only want $350 for it. i ain't rich but i can handle that easily.
 
Somewhere I read that Gulbransen pioneered the first transistor organ in 1959, so if that info. was correct, it would not be surprising that there are few if any tube generator gulbransens. They would have to be from the '50's if they were made.
 
tonesage said:
i found a pristine Gulbransen theatre organ that has a (2?) leslie tremelo unit(s) inside. do these things even compare as a stand-alone organ? i heard a guy on youtube making some serious b-3 sounds with this thing! my wife is an amateur organ FREAK and i would love to buy her an authentic relic unit that she can FEEL. she is not easily fooled. but this thing has the drawbars, pedals and all of the other bells and whistles of the old hammonds. maybe more! will this be a thing she will cherish? or will it be (eventually aren't they all?) a dust collector? they only want $350 for it. i ain't rich but i can handle that easily.
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If your wife wants the B3 sound, then only a Hammond organ will do. The sound she wants comes from the Hammond tonewheel, the Hammond reverb, and certain specific Leslie units (or external Hammond units), when hooked up to an appropriate Hammond organ.

Unfortunately the B3s and related full console organs (some of the A- and C- series) cost a small fortune. But there are spinets that will come quite close. The basic "M" series (M, M2, M3) and the "L" series have the same tonewheel, nearly the same chord generation, but they don't have percussion and they don't have "Foldback", a Hammond specific technique for generating chord harmonics on higher frequency notes that created the unique Hammond sound. But these older spinets can quite often be found at reasonable price.

The best of the spinets would be the Hammond M-100 series (M-1xx, where xx typically designated the console's finish), as these had all the electronic capabilities, including percussion) of the B-3 except for foldback. The M-100s usually go for a slight premium over the basic M and L spinets, but still much cheaper than the B-3s. And it turns out you can now buy electronic accessories on-line that will give these spinets foldback capabilities.

What you don't want is a later Hammond, as the solid state units sound nothing like the older tube models, which is why the oldies go for so much.
 
Good to see a discussion of tube organs aiming at preservation of the musical
instruments rather than cannibalization of the parts...
 
hammr7 said:
If your wife wants the B3 sound, then only a Hammond organ will do. The sound she wants comes from the Hammond tonewheel, the Hammond reverb, and certain specific Leslie units (or external Hammond units), when hooked up to an appropriate Hammond organ.

Unfortunately the B3s and related full console organs (some of the A- and C- series) cost a small fortune. But there are spinets that will come quite close. The basic "M" series (M, M2, M3) and the "L" series have the same tonewheel, nearly the same chord generation, but they don't have percussion and they don't have "Foldback", a Hammond specific technique for generating chord harmonics on higher frequency notes that created the unique Hammond sound. But these older spinets can quite often be found at reasonable price.

The best of the spinets would be the Hammond M-100 series (M-1xx, where xx typically designated the console's finish), as these had all the electronic capabilities, including percussion) of the B-3 except for foldback. The M-100s usually go for a slight premium over the basic M and L spinets, but still much cheaper than the B-3s. And it turns out you can now buy electronic accessories on-line that will give these spinets foldback capabilities.

What you don't want is a later Hammond, as the solid state units sound nothing like the older tube models, which is why the oldies go for so much.
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ALL HAMMOND TONEWHEEL SPINETS AND CONSOLES HAVE PERCUSSION AFTER 1954! That includes A, B, C, D, E, G, H, L, M, R, T, and Porta-B models. (R-100s and T-100s are solid state models) :smoke:
 
gogofast said:
that's a bummer. so when i see Gulbransen organ, i won't even bother to look. :D
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I wouldn't give up looking! I own a Gulbransen organ that has a stock tube amplifier. It uses a pair of 6L6GC tubes in PP, a 12AX7 AF amp/phase splitter preamp, solid state rectifier. Everything else (the tone generator circuitry) is transistorized.
 
cademan said:
I wouldn't give up looking! I own a Gulbransen organ that has a stock tube amplifier. It uses a pair of 6L6GC tubes in PP, a 12AX7 AF amp/phase splitter preamp, solid state rectifier. Everything else (the tone generator circuitry) is transistorized.
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Definitely! Fender Bassmans use a similar tube arrangement 2x6L6gc, SS rectifer, 3x12AX7 and a 12AT7. Keep looking for those Gulbransen amps :thmbsp:
 
Kingfisher said:
ALL HAMMOND TONEWHEEL SPINETS AND CONSOLES HAVE PERCUSSION AFTER 1954! That includes A, B, C, D, E, G, H, L, M, R, T, and Porta-B models. (R-100s and T-100s are solid state models) :smoke:
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In the consoles, only the "3"s (B-3, C-3, RT-3) and the "100"s (A-100, D-100, E-100, and H-100) had percussive overtones, as earlier versions of these models, like the B-2 and C-2, were produced before 1955.

Among the spinets, only the later M series, specifically the M-3s and The M-100s, had the same basic electronic components of the B-3 and C-3. The M-3 had the "waterfall" keyboards but lacks reverb, and I believe it had a simpler variation of chord/harmonic generation. The M-100 series has the B-3's chord/harmonic generation, and has reverb, but has "springboard" keys, which have a slightly different action. These two models are often referred to, by different experts, as the closest spinets in sound and operation to the B-3 ("Baby B-3"s).

The L series spinets used a slightly different electronic configuration, and were not considered to sound quite like the B-3 / C-3 consoles.
 
hammr7 said:
In the consoles, only the "3"s (B-3, C-3, RT-3) and the "100"s (A-100, D-100, E-100, and H-100) had percussive overtones, as earlier versions of these models, like the B-2 and C-2, were produced before 1955.

Among the spinets, only the later M series, specifically the M-3s and The M-100s, had the same basic electronic components of the B-3 and C-3. The M-3 had the "waterfall" keyboards but lacks reverb, and I believe it had a simpler variation of chord/harmonic generation. The M-100 series has the B-3's chord/harmonic generation, and has reverb, but has "springboard" keys, which have a slightly different action. These two models are often referred to, by different experts, as the closest spinets in sound and operation to the B-3 ("Baby B-3"s).

The L series spinets used a slightly different electronic configuration, and were not considered to sound quite like the B-3 / C-3 consoles.
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You must be referring to "Key Click" which is not the same as percussion. My L-112 has second and third harmonic percussion tabs and so does my M-111. Hammond saw "key click" as a flaw and tried to engineer it out of the L-100s. As for "foldback", none of the spinets had it because it was only a console feature. Spinets also had slightly fewer tonewheels than consoles because there were fewer keys. :smoke:
 
electroking said:
Good to see a discussion of tube organs aiming at preservation of the musical
instruments rather than cannibalization of the parts...
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The biggest problem seems to be that there is almost no market for the spinets. I have an L-101 that is in working condition but if I go through and recap it and clean it up I would be lucky to get the cost of restoration out of it. Since I can house only a limited number of organs it creates a bit of a conundrum. Sadly the speakers and amp are worth more than the entire organ.

Still not sure where I am going to go with it. Restore, Chop Job, Scavenge... so I am just taking my time making a decision by working on other projects. :)

Sad state of affairs really.

mike
 
mashaffer said:
The biggest problem seems to be that there is almost no market for the spinets. I have an L-101 that is in working condition but if I go through and recap it and clean it up I would be lucky to get the cost of restoration out of it. Since I can house only a limited number of organs it creates a bit of a conundrum. Sadly the speakers and amp are worth more than the entire organ.

Still not sure where I am going to go with it. Restore, Chop Job, Scavenge... so I am just taking my time making a decision by working on other projects. :)

Sad state of affairs really.

mike
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I completely agree. I've scavenged older Lowreys, Baldwins, Conns and other lesser brands, where the furniture components weren't worth refurbishing (many had water damage or had been stored outdoors or in garages for years). But I loathe to do the same with Allens, Rodgers, or the old tube Hammonds.

Unfortunately, trying to find homes for these wonderful instruments is often near impossible. I had a glorious old Allen C-4, that with its wall of gyrophonic and bass speakers was just too big for my home. I struggled for months trying to find a proper home for it. I had a similar problem with an M-3, and later found the buyer parted it out. I now have an M-102 that I'm almost afraid to offer but need to sell. I'd gladly sell it for less than the key parts just to jeep it together. But that makes it possible for buyers to part it out at a profit.
 
hammr7 said:
I completely agree. I've scavenged older Lowreys, Baldwins, Conns and other lesser brands, where the furniture components weren't worth refurbishing (many had water damage or had been stored outdoors or in garages for years). But I loathe to do the same with Allens, Rodgers, or the old tube Hammonds.

Unfortunately, trying to find homes for these wonderful instruments is often near impossible. I had a glorious old Allen C-4, that with its wall of gyrophonic and bass speakers was just too big for my home. I struggled for months trying to find a proper home for it. I had a similar problem with an M-3, and later found the buyer parted it out. I now have an M-102 that I'm almost afraid to offer but need to sell. I'd gladly sell it for less than the key parts just to jeep it together. But that makes it possible for buyers to part it out at a profit.
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A lot of people think that nobody used the hammond spinets, L and M models were VERY popular with British rock musicians (they were cheap and commonly built in Europe by Hammond UK and other companies under license.) B-3s were never sold in Europe and other consoles (C-3s, A-100s, etc.) were simply too expensive and too heavy for touring. There is tons of footage on Youtube showing various bands using L or M Hammonds. I was surprised to see Pink Floyd using an E-100 Hammond oddball on a French television show from 1968. As for Allen and Rogers, young people don't really have an appreciation for organ music anymore. They are too busy using simulation keyboards and computerized digital stuff :thumbsdn:
 
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