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Japanese technology withheld over the years

charlottemi

charlottemi

Active Member
I had an economics professor years ago who said the best olives in the world were grown in Greece and the 'best of the best' seldom if ever left that country. That made sense, because they are an important local commodity and a very limited resource.

Similarly, but not quite the same, I heard a radio interview with the president of Porsche's U.S. division when the Boxster was first released. The new entry-level car was so popular the interviewer suggested Porsche could sell Boxsters as fast as the company could make them. But the Prosche rep demurred, saying it didn't do the brand any good 'if the general public sees one of our cars every time they step out of a Burger King.' That also made sense, because Porsche is a brand trading on its exclusivity.

But, I'm confused about the Japanese withholding their best consumer tech from other export markets.

I've read countless threads on these forums saying that 'Brand-X Japanese component is simply incredible, but we didn't get it here in the States.'

I also read an article recently saying Apple's iPhone, though wildly popular in many areas outside the U.S., is not competitive in Japan, where it's viewed as low-tech. Apparently Japanese consumer mobiles are not only better, they're also cheaper.

So, what's the deal with that?

It seems like these are major mass market companies (unlike Porsche), with almost unlimited production capacity (unlike Greek olive growers), so why don't they maximize their highest-tech sales in overseas markets?

What do they get by holding back?
 
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Therin lies the rub, production of those high end products was limited and home consumption pretty much absorbed it all.

During the years I was involved in the international standards work (ISO, CCITT) I traveled quite a bit in Europe, I drank wines in Madrid and Geneva that you do not see in out liquor stores here. For example, in Germany beer is not permitted to have additives, not necessarily true of beer that is exported.
 
merrylander said:
Therin lies the rub, production of those high end products was limited and home consumption pretty much absorbed it all.
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Is it a case of these products being so advanced they literally couldn't/can't produce more of them than the Japanese market could sustain by itself?

Or is it a conscious decision to limit production? And, if so, why?
 
charlottemi said:
But, I'm confused about the Japanese withholding their best consumer tech from other export markets.
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You answered it yourself with the iPhone. They don't buy what they perceive as inferior technology so the "best" must be offered to the home market. Further, virtually every Japanese consumer products company (from cars to digital cameras) that does business here does so through a US arm. If that company's market manager does not think JDM products are viable, you won't see them here. Or, if you do it will be in a form that they feel best reflects the market need.
 
You should see what the japan only sansui models look like, I mean, really really nice integrated amp's and other choice gear that has to be imported, if at all.
 
charlottemi said:
Is it a case of these products being so advanced they literally couldn't/can't produce more of them than the Japanese market could sustain by itself?
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I think there may be some truth to that. My other thought is that the higher end gear may end up too pricey in the states after shipping and VAT costs are added.
 
It's not just the best of the best that we never see, it goes the other way as well...

Managing the public's perception of a brand is a major part of what companies do, and that most definitely includes decisions regarding what product to sell in what market.

When I lived in Germany I was astounded to see what was the most common auto brand on the road. They were everywhere. Nope, not VW. Mercedes Benz. Common as fleas. Every family's family car. Most of the taxis were MB, fercryinoutloud.

In order to make sure that MB retains its brand cache in the US, and continues to be seen as a totl auto purchase, MB does not export their less expensive models to the US. They are only sold in Europe.

There are many quite affordable models, but we never see them.
 
Different consumer mind sets. We want lots of choices, but few of us will pay for Leica, Hasselblad, Porsche, or high end Nippon gear. We already have home market high end stuff like Mcintosh and above, they do not have our imported choices, so their companies fill that void.
 
I heard that in the early '90s Fender Japan made two types of guitars--those for home consumption and those for export. The ones for home consumption supposedly had better materials and attention to detail, though the export models were no slouches, either. I'd imagine using lower-grade parts (if they indeed did do that) would off set shipping and import duty costs, thus allowing their products to be competitive in foreign markets.
 
I think that the Japanese likely do have better choices. Having read posts here about equipment available to Japan that was never offered in the States, (Arkay's posts seem to substantiate this) as well as knowing that there are many, many music releases on various formats that are Japanese market only, I would think that the Japanese likely did/do get some equipment changes for the better on various models of vintage gear. At the very least they got more choices.

On the other hand, whatcha gonna do? We can be envious of the gear they got over what was exported to the US, but I can't say that I blame 'em.... if the situation was reversed I would hope that I could get the best stuff made in the US here rather than see it shipped to other countries. Seems like it would be enormously expensive to hunt out, say, a Japan-sold Pioneer or Sansui amp over it's US counterpart. The Japan market has always seemed to be to be one that is awash with some nice media choices, and the sky seems to be the limit on what they are willing to pay for their audio equipment and media.
 
Every country has its variations on this theme.

Why do so many eBay sellers in the US sell ONLY within the US, and cut themselves off from a large part of the potential market? Okay, these are individuals and not corporations, but the extreme lack of US corporate willingness in general to bend even the littlest bit for substantial overseas business is so great you would not believe it. I wouldn't have, unless and until I had lived overseas and heard story after story after story after story from Europeans and Asians who had tried to buy US products. Of course, not all US companies are like that, but MANY, MANY are.

The Japanese made what was for them, good business decisions. Why chase a more expensive overseas market when you can sell all that you can produce of the best stuff in the domestic market, and the export markets will accept the second-rate stuff.

That said, if you are talking about the audio gear of yesteryear, there is another reason: purchasing power. The Japanese have a tendency to save and buy less, but better, and for a time their booming economy and favorable currency exchange rate made it possible for them to buy the best, not only domestically but from abroad, too. I knew one of the biggest cattle ranchers years ago, and he said that ALL the BEST U.S. beef at the time was shipped to Japan, because they paid higher prices for it than Americans would, even after the shipping cost was added.

Incidentally, exactly the opposite generally holds true in China. The stuff they export is the BEST stuff, and the second-rate stuff and the rejects get dumped in the domestic market. "Quality circles" haven't caught on in the Chinese psyche yet, as they did in Japan. Think about that the next time you buy a "Made in China" product and think it lacks a bit in quality... it might be too good already, for the people who made it!

One good thing, though. With the Internet and the current state of the economies, you CAN sit in Europe or the United States and buy stuff from Japan, including some of the best stuff, as AKer Theophile did with his Yamaha GT-2000 turntable. It just takes a little willingness to deal with a few more steps and a long-distance transaction. I have a friend in Hong Kong who has bought DOZENS of items from Japan, via the Internet, some for his collection and some for resale. Every single one of them that I've seen, was in excellent condition, better than the descriptions made them sound. Japanese (again, unlike Chinese) generally take excellent care of their gear.
 
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soundmotor said:
You answered it yourself with the iPhone. They don't buy what they perceive as inferior technology so the "best" must be offered to the home market. Further, virtually every Japanese consumer products company (from cars to digital cameras) that does business here does so through a US arm. If that company's market manager does not think JDM products are viable, you won't see them here. Or, if you do it will be in a form that they feel best reflects the market need.
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In the case of phones, the Japanese have also had a different infrastructure, our phones don't work on their infrastructure and theirs don't work on ours.

They also run on 220, so they might find that some things are just not worth selling into 'lesser' markets.

Above and beyond shipping, there's a lot involved with 'localizing' a product for certain markets. Manuals, customer support, service, packaging, product safety testing, etc etc.

bs
 
charlottemi said:
But the Prosche rep demurred, saying it didn't do the brand any good 'if the general public sees one of our cars every time they step out of a Burger King.' That also made sense, because Porsche is a brand trading on its exclusivity.
Click to expand...

The same should probably apply to Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Lexus. Everytime you "step out of a Burger King" in New York City, you see one or two or three of these. Its like every Tom, Dick and Harriet owns one.
 
Two additional reasons, beyond what's been noted above:

1. Japanese electricity is 100V, I believe uniquely in the world. They also use a different FM band than any other country (78MHz-98MHz or something like that). They may not feel it's worth the extra work to modify low volume products for export.

2. A lot of "bleeding edge" technologies are sold on the domestic market first, and only exported once their reliability has been proven. This makes sense both because it's easier to provide tech support in the local market, and because it protects Japan's hard won reputation in overseas markets for reliability. I remember seeing flat screen and wide screen TVs in Akahabra years before they were known in the US.
 
Hate to say it, but generally markets get the products they deserve. Not what every enthusiast in that market deserves, but what the mass or average deserves, or demands.

For example, in certain areas ( I am not talking audio) where Europe has a long history and a huge culture of mass participation they make superb gear which sells extremely well in their home countries. Do not think for a minute the companies producing this gear are not salivating at the potential market offered by the size of the North American population. They offer their best gear here as they do back home. Very few have succeded in gaining anything above a marginal market share. When faced with a mass market that is indifferent or ill informed, marketing trumps quality every time. Result: generic low quality goods with glossy ads outsells the real deal by a huge amount. I would extrapolate from this that if Japan produces a wide range of goods and realized that they can move crap here by selling specs and price over actual quality, why do otherwise? If the home market demands quality, you have to deliver. Companies do what is most profitable for them and often the consumers, or the ease with which they can be influenced, determine what that will be. Companies work on profit maximization, not philosophies.

Just my take, not that I actually know anything about how any of this stuff works...
 
Japanese voltage is 100V.

I read a story on the internet by a US guy who was stationed at Okinawa in the late '70s early '80s.He said that he visited a high-end Hi-Fi store,and saw many,many items which were way above the US catalogue Top Of The Line components.
A whole different stratum of equipment.
He went back with cash to try and buy some of this stuff to bring it back with him to the United States.
The store-owner flat-out refused to sell any of the unobtanium stuff to the G.I.,even though he had Yen in his hand.
I've recounted this story before on AK,and one member speculated that the owner of the store may have been under instruction from the parent companies not to sell to people from countries where they already had in place,distribution agreements.
The flaw in that argument is that the US distributors never sold these items anyway.So how could they be in breach of the agreement?

If you want this stuff,you have to import it from Japan.Then you need to have a transformer which will convert your national voltage to 100V.

It's worth it.:thmbsp:

The Yamaha GT 2000 and the Accuphase F-25 are both 100V models imported from Japan.
They both sound glorious.
I don't know how many fussy(hard to please)audiophiles have congratulated me on the internet for having purchased the Accuphase F-25,saying that it is a great sounding component.
 
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Olympus camera co. did a thing like that a couple of years ago. They came out with a new DSLR model that was better and more advanced than the current offerings in the U.S. But it was only being made available to the European market. Let me tell you, that sure pissed off a lot of American Olympus fans here!
 
I think Raynald and theophile might have good points.

On top of that I can say that certain manufacturers actually sell lower end models as higher end models in the US. (for instance Sony sells some 'ES' models there that elsewhere are non ES models, while being exactly the same in and out). Things like that make me think that those companies assume the true need for quality is less in the US ? Or that gear will only sell when it's supposedly high end, but with a low end price.

A lot of times market demands will dictate the strategy of big companies when it comes to bringing their TOTL gear into the shops. When it's not profitable by lack of interest, the big managers on top will probably decide that the efforts of those select bunch of engineers working on that small TOTL lineup, are probably wasted to such an indifferent public. Or at least it seems/seemed that way...
 
Sorry guys,

I don't buy the iphone analogy. The iphone is the most advanced cell phone period. When you consider the touch screen, ease of use, all the applications for this phone and all the other built in features every cell phone company 2 years later has not been able to catch up with a better touch screen model. I know other phones may have a better camera or record video, so what. All camera phones have a crappy lens and that has more effect on quality then the megapixel number; something that will no doubt be improved upon with the next iphone to release in June. In know the beta version of the new OS will continue to add features to the iphone as well. If the Japs had a better phone or better computer operating system then Apple they would sell it here in the US. Some of the products from Japan are very good: Nikon, Cannon etc. and are leaders in the field they are in, however the iphone and ipod are still the best in the world because nobody has been able to make a better total package ie software to go with there player .
 
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