JBL 4435 Bucket List Countdown

[FireGuruMN]

A pair of 4435's showed up on the local craigslist for a reasonable price and I landed them. Got them out of one basement and into mine with no injuries to the speakers or the movers. They are 250 pounds each if you are wondering why I mention that. After factoring in a Florida vacation so my wife would allow me to bring them in the house, I still think I got an OK deal.

I cleared out several other pairs of speakers to make room for these. I placed the "tweeters" towards the center of the room to minimize nasty bounces off the walls. Pictures later.

In case anyone is reading this to get repair advice just go here instead.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/jbl-4430-and-4435-cheat-sheet.673961/
This is mostly about my personal experience.

I hooked them up to a Yamaha CX/MX5000 system. It was hard to tell if everything was working with the system they were on where I bought them. But I could tell all the drivers were working at least. Now I could tell that one of the tweeters was not putting out the high frequencies it should. At least not as nice as the other side. So I googled a while and found out that the crossover selector switches were a common problem. I pulled out one 15" driver to get to the crossover. Then put it back in because the crossover was on the other side. Brain fart. I sprayed deoxit into the selector switch and worked it a while. Then soaked the L-pads and pot while I was in there. I've never actually been that far into a speaker before. I have been inside a fire alarm panel (1945 vintage) and a radio transmitter but never a speaker. But getting inside the speaker is easier than removing the metal label on the face. Done that on L100 and 4312's. Hairdryer to melt the glue and a putty knife and LOTS of patience so you don't crease the metal label. Easily an hour each if you do it right. Never gain. But I digress. After I buttoned everything back up the high frequencies sounded much much better. Eventually I will do the other speaker but its ok for now.

Now I got serious about playing music. First, get everyone else out of the house. Done.
I played Foy Vance, From Muscle Shoals. Seems I love everything recorded at that studio. Especially the original Freebird. But I digress. The speakers seem to effortlessly handle everything I throw at them. I select a track and think "They will never get this right". Then they just nail it. Perfect every time. U2 Mothers of the Disappeared. Usually I can't even hear the first 30 seconds of the track. Now I could even tell there was bass and not just guitar. Wow.

But being who I am, I went onto parts connexion and put a full order of mills 12watt resistors, solen 600volt ppe caps and ClarityCap bypass caps. But some stuff was backordered so I waited on the order. Now I'm thinking I'm not going to mess with them. All the existing caps are film and probably aged well. So I'm not messing with them for now. But since I will never be using external crossovers I will pull out the selector switch. If you do pull out the switch, realize that the 20uf cap is not in the circuit anymore and will not need to be replaced. That can save a lot of money. I will also put in some modern binding posts. The speakers sound fine to me with the Lpads set to zero so I might remove them. but they are not scratchy anymore once I sprayed them and worked them a bid. To clarify for possible noobs: Lpads do not get removed but actually replaced with resistors to maintain balance in the network. The high frequency pot has a contact that bypasses it when it is at zero so really nothing will improve that.

Has anyone thought about a toggle switch to replace the rotary switch? Would it have to be a 5 pole switch? I have not thought it through.

One thing I don't like is using these for watching movies. I'm not sure what the problem is but my Polk RTIA9's are going to get flipped upside down and placed on top of the 4435's. There is no where else they will fit and still have proper positioning in the room. I'm flipping them so the high frequency drivers are closer to ear level. That might require another vacation for my wife. In their original location these speakers were hung upside down in a conference room apparently. There are internal steel reinforcements and ones set of eye rings still attached on the bottoms.

One thought: Is there a way to setup the 4435's to handle the LFE channel out of my Yamaha? Would that sort of be like an external crossover and/or bi-amping? It would be nice to keep my JBL E250P subs out of the room if they are not necessary. I gutted the amps on the subs and power them with one of the channels in the MX5000. I still have a couple channels left because 11.2 is too many speakers for sane people.

There is still some difference between the 2 speakers when switching my player to mono and switching balance quickly right to left. It might be that there is a sofa blocking some of the midrange driver at the bottom but I think it is more than that. Don't cringe about a sofa blocking a speaker, I had no other place to put them and the sofa could not leave. Pictures later.

The woofers have been refoamed so they are good to go. Another question (if anyone actually read this far), is there a difference between the two 15" drivers? Somewhere I read that one is weighted differently so it handles lower frequencies. But I cannot find that reference again. That might explain where some of my midrange is going (other than heating up the sofa).

The cabinets are in surprisingly good condition. A couples nicks on the back edge of the veneer and one "doobie" burn on the top that is lined up with some dark grain so it is even hard to see. Good grills.

So now off to listen to my entire music collection again again. Can't wait to get my CA/BA3000 back from the tech. Think I could drive this with a pair of Heathkit W5M's? 25 watts?

The rest of the bucket list: B&W 804 matrix (maybe 800d), Realistic Mach 1 (nostalga), Quad ESL 57, AR9. Most everything else is checked.

 

[toddalin]

A

The woofers have been refoamed so they are good to go. Another question (if anyone actually read this far), is there a difference between the two 15" drivers? Somewhere I read that one is weighted differently so it handles lower frequencies. But I cannot find that reference again. That might explain where some of my midrange is going (other than heating up the sofa).

No, should both be 2234s. The "weights" would make them 2235s (as used in the 4430s) and this would hurt the lower midrange.

 

[FireGuruMN]

Pictures. . .(Always black out reflections. They are often the most interesting part of a picture)

Yes those all work and are patched into a bay behind the screen with an A/B speaker switch, A/B receiver switch and A/B subwoofer switch so I can compare apples to oranges. Also cables to another room to feed from the pieces in there.
The speakers do block some of the pull down screen but it's fine for letterbox movies. Everything is a compromise.
If anyone else wants to invert their Polk RTIA9's: The bottom feet do come off but the grills do not flip over. See, I can be helpful.
Just gotta find room for the LFE subs. . .

The best camouflaged cigarette burn ever. . .

 

[toddalin]

You were a Mohel?

 

[Nyjblbob]

Pictures. . .(Always black out reflections. They are often the most interesting part of a picture)
View attachment 1749904
Yes those all work and are patched into a bay behind the screen with an A/B speaker switch, A/B receiver switch and A/B subwoofer switch so I can compare apples to oranges. Also cables to another room to feed from the pieces in there.
The speakers do block some of the pull down screen but it's fine for letterbox movies. Everything is a compromise.
If anyone else wants to invert their Polk RTIA9's: The bottom feet do come off but the grills do not flip over. See, I can be helpful.
Just gotta find room for the LFE subs. . .

The best camouflaged cigarette burn ever. . .
View attachment 1749907

Congrats!
I bet quite a few of your collectibles are all buzzing in Harmony with these beauties!
Bobhorn

 

[Nyjblbob]

Congrats!
I bet quite a few of your collectibles are all buzzing in Harmony with these beauties!
Bobhorn

https://open.spotify.com/track/6yQ8GTqnUsutwVDrnj0YlO?si=Ce2A7BvURxCZubSN6-oPcA
If you can try this To really see what they are capable of!

 

[FireGuruMN]

"Collectibles" is such a polite term. Thanks for that. Most of the rattling one are held down with museum clay from past experiences. Another life lesson: Don't display your collection of metal reels in the same room as your subwoofers. There is no quieting them down. It's better if they have tape on the reels.

I didn't try the Spotify bass track yet. I'll have to wait until the house clears out again. I did get a text from the neighbor saying "nice tunes" when he was out in the yard. It's a running joke.

 

[Nyjblbob]

My Ex had a Bell collection on a shelf above my couch., I almost got knocked out by a Big ceramic bell falling off that hit my head.
These 13 glass panels in my Fireplace
As well as the China in the display
All Buzz away

 

[twiiii]

If I were you I would get rid of everything else and find a 4430 or in a pinch a 4425 for the center. At least they will have the same voice down to 80 Hz where you can roll off the bass to the center channel. You can add the LFE to the front L& R channels using a flexible HT processor. That will clean up a lot of your issues you have with HT right now. I would be looking for a room perfect HT processor to Taylor the sound of your entire system to your room. Mac made quite a few and so does the original designer, Lyngdorf. 1/12 octave filters that are adjusted after the room is analyzed by the processor haven taken multi measurements throughout the room. You can also use a PC using 5 or 6 parametric additional filters built in to custom voice the sound for your preference. I would stand the 4435 on end rotating the HF horn 90 degrees to get the horns as high as possible. May build a slight pedestal for the 4435, too

 

[FireGuruMN]

Wow, those are some very intriguing suggestions. But I need to better explain what all the speakers are doing in the picture. There are really 2 systems in there. The HT system is:

• RTIA9's for front speakers now that I have them sitting on top of the 4435's and wired back in the system.
• Polk PSW100 subs are directly connected to the RTIA9's to fill in the low end they lack. I am using the internal amps on the PSW100's.
• The two RTIA1's are the center channel.
• There is pair of Tannoy in wall speakers at the back for surround.
• Some day soon I will add a pair of surrounds in the middle of the room to setup a 7.1 system. They will probably go in the ceiling. I will never setup an 11.1 system because that is only for companies that want to sell more speakers IMHO. I use the extra amp channels in the MX for subs and zone 2,3,4 systems.
• The two JBL E250P subs are not connected now because there is no physical space for them. I might put them elsewhere in the room but I tried that before and did not like having them anywhere except the front of the room. So some of the monster receivers might get covered up which would make me sad. The E250P are powered from the MX5000 because the amps in them were failing so I gutted them. My previous HT receiver would not send sub signal to the LFE subs if you told it that the front speakers were "large". That was very annoying. This CX5000 has an option called "extra bass" I think that allows the LFE subs to play all the time. So I might not need the PSW100's anymore. Still experimenting. But sometimes I switch them in with some vintage speakers because not all vintage speakers have two 15" woofers. With the CX in pure direct mode the LFE subs are cut out. But in "straight" mode they stay in. And in pure direct mode the zone 2,3,4 outputs are disabled which is annoying. It's [almost] noted in the manuals that that happens but not quite.

The KEF104/2's and the JBL 4435's are played only for 2 channel music. Either by running the CX/MX5000 in pure direct mode or by switching one of the other receivers in the collection. There are open jacks hanging in the front so I can pull receivers off the shelf and play them in rotation. I can also switch in the RTIA9's which I use as a baseline to see if other speakers sound better or worse. The 4435's and many others have proven "better"! I only commented that the 4435's did not sound good for HT because I had not put the A9's back in for movie night so I used the 4435's.

I use the Modi 1 for 2 channel playback. Lately I've been using an HDMI for playback with the internal CX dacs. They are better than my previous HT receiver's dacs. But Windows still messes with the EQ sometimes and that is very annoying. Using Music Bee I can direct output directly to the Modi and bypass all that.

Yes, It's a tangled mess. see pictures.

I have never liked any YPAO or other automatic calibration system. What they do is impressive technology but that does not mean it sounds good to me. It is impressive from a geek standpoint that the CX can calculate angles of speakers by having you move the microphone to different locations on a little plastic mic stand. But I don't have that stand because I got mine used. I would not use it anyway except to geek out. But I digress.

I'm going to explore PC based software that will allow me to tune the HT system. I've never gone down that road. Could be rocky.

I don't think putting the 4435's on the side will improve the horn spread enough to be worth the downsides of doing that. Maybe it would get the midrange a little better. This weekend I will try moving the couch out of the way as an experiment. I also need to deoxit the crossover in the left hand speaker. And putting them up on stands will not happen because there is only 3 inches of clearance for the A9's right now. 10 pounds of crap in a 5 pound crap box as electricians say.

I'm also going to try toeing in the 4435's. Right now the sound stage is too wide if those are the correct words. Everything sounds like it is coming from too large of a stage. But I certainly note that I can listen to the 4435's at high volume (90db) and not get any "audio fatigue" like with many speakers.

Here is the switch panel I made. Each switch is 4pdt with center off.

I wish this was remote controlled like that AR product. I forget the name. But that's cool.

Then I have 3 of these patch bays near the equipment that is too heavy or fragile to move easily.

It keeps me out of worse trouble. . .

 

[FireGuruMN]

I toed in the 4435's such that one corner was about a foot away from the back wall. That gave me an angle that pretty much pointed them directly at my seating position. I think it provided a more subtle sound stage but the difference was not enough to offset the lowered Wife-Acceptance-Factor (WAF) of having them that far out in the room. So back against the wall they went. Experiment over.

I did some A/B comparisons with the RTIA9's. Running the A9's without the subs hooked up. Being an engineer I had to make a spreadsheet.

Hard to believe. But I'll be passing the 4435's down to my son when I die. Unless I decide to be buried in them. And the Polks might disappear this March when a pair of LSIM707's are coming my way. So there is more to this than numbers.

 

[Nyjblbob]

I toed in the 4435's such that one corner was about a foot away from the back wall. That gave me an angle that pretty much pointed them directly at my seating position. I think it provided a more subtle sound stage but the difference was not enough to offset the lowered Wife-Acceptance-Factor (WAF) of having them that far out in the room. So back against the wall they went. Experiment over.

I did some A/B comparisons with the RTIA9's. Running the A9's without the subs hooked up. Being an engineer I had to make a spreadsheet.
View attachment 1754679
Hard to believe. But I'll be passing the 4435's down to my son when I die. Unless I decide to be buried in them. And the Polks might disappear this March when a pair of LSIM707's are coming my way. So there is more to this than numbers.

Waf 0 , cool factor 5

 

[twiiii]

How many hours did you listen to the JBL's. If you didn't give them at least 200 hrs, you are going to be sorry because rating are all wrong. Who cares about the portability factor. They aren't meant to be, so remove those numbers. Whats this value number. If they sound better then they get a 5 everything else gets a 1 or 0. Its that simple. Subs are crutch, if a speaker can't make it on its own it gets a and big fat 0. Of course you could run out and buy a pair of M2's. Smaller box, much lower horn driver distortion and better dispersion control. But they are really ugly. How about a pair of DD67000 in white or some other color? Better yet a pair of Magico S7's in a color of your wife choice. That will make her happy and you can get rid of everything else. Of course you'll need some 1000 watt amplifiers. They are 6 db less efficient that the JBL's and only cost $78,000 a pair.

 

[FireGuruMN]

Yep, I was afraid someone would take the ratings too seriously.
No doubt that the 4435's are the best all around sounding speakers I own. But the ratings tried to [amusingly] point out some other factors that go into evaluating speakers.
I have several times sat down to listen to a song or two and find myself still sitting there 2 hours later. Seems I subconsciously keep raising the volume. No listening fatigue at all.

 

[FireGuruMN]

So while the world is shutdown with COVID I took the time to replace the diaphragms in the 2421A tweeters with Radian 1225-8's.
Here is what the new ones look like:

notice the clear ring on the new ones:

Here are the old ones:

old ones:

this is what it looks like inside the driver when you remove the 4 screws that hold the cover on:

This is the "foam" that is pretty much a gummy mess when you touch it. Don't wear a white shirt for this project.

Here is where I touched it with my finger. it is no longer foamy. More like the stuff they put flowers in for displays. but stickier.

All the foam gone:

sticky felt for furniture pads from Home Depot:

Continued. . .

 

[FireGuruMN]

Felt installed:

The instructions from Radian talked about removing 8 screws and washers and a few other things that did not look like my situation. But they did say to keep everything super clean. I will second that.
Here is what it looks like under the dome after I removed 3 screws and no washers. Notice the two alignment pins. there is only one way the replacement will fit with the pins and screw holds still lining up.
I ran a dustbuster over this area before installing the new diaphragm.
The new coils on the diaphragm have to be seated all the way down into the outer ring between the aluminum (silver) and brass (golden). It takes a little pressure to overcome the magnetic fields and get it seated all the way. it should not feel like physical contact, only magnetic interactions.
New one installed and wired up. take the time to tighten the screws on the cover also. mine were coming loose.

Tighten the 3 screws on the diaphragm. the instructions said to seat them and then give them another half turn. there is a little wiggle room around the alignment pins. I just made sure everything seemed center and tightened the screws down. The instruction talked about ensuring the diaphragm moved easily but mine is sitting right against the aluminum plate so that made no sense to me. again, maybe those are for a different product.
Screw the rear cap back on. I checked the resistance after the cap was on and both of mine read almost exactly 3.0 ohms. Put the horns back into the cabinet and see how it sounds. Continued. . .

 

[FireGuruMN]

Being an engineer I had to do an before and after on this. So I installed one Radian on one side and left the other original. I brought up the equalizer in Music Bee and clicked the mono switch. Then I switched the balance back and forth to hear the difference. WOOHOO! ALL the harshness of the original horns is GONE. . Bye Bye and don't come back.

I went through the same process on the other horn. I still did some A/B testing to make sure both sides sounded the same. The did not. Then I remembered I had the treble and midrange turned down a bit and forgot to return them back to normal like I did on the first one. Too excited I guess. Now both sides sound the same. I think the imbalance I noted in the original drivers is gone also.

I'm very happy with my $200.00 investment.

Now some things to upset JBL people:
I now have a pair of Polk LSim 707 towers sitting on top of the JBL 4435's. There was no where else to put them with out blocking the projector screen. And it is not optimal since the 707's cannot be turned upside down like the RTiA9's were. So if I want my ears lined up with the high frequencies of the 707's I have to stand up. Nuts, I know. But if the shoe fits. . .

It is difficult to compare these two speakers on my setup because the JBL are WAY more efficient than the 707's. The JBL always sound better because they are louder and louder is usually better. But if I take the time to adjust the volume in the room to the same DB level and listen through an entire song these are "comparable" speakers. It is absolutely amazing the bass that Polk gets out of the 707's. It is not as "natural" as the JBL bass. The 707 bass almost seems forced at times and certainly not as smooth as the 15" drivers on the JBL.

The high end on the 707's seems better. But not by much. At times the JBL's almost seem dull. But when I play through an entire track, everything I want to hear is there on both systems. Admittedly I don't have the hearing range of a young dog but I know what I like. And both these speakers are wonderful.

Now, back to being nuts:
I have 4 Pioneer HPM-100's in house. Next time my son comes over I am going to stack them in the basement and see how they sound in comparison. All the HPM's have been recapped. one pair was modded to raise the crossover frequency between the mid and woofer, the other one is not modded. Hope my MX5000 is ready for a 4 ohm load.

Stay Safe.

 

[FireGuruMN]

OMG. I just listened to Shine On You Crazy Diamond. Wifey is out so the volume limits are off. It was perfect. All the screaming guitars and saxophone riffs came through silky smooth. Not any of the paint peeling torture I have heard from other speakers.
Keep in mind that I am still running on the original caps in the crossovers. I have not bit the bullet to throw $300 into that effort yet. I suppose it will depend on how long we are shut in. . .Hope UPS keeps delivering.

 

[Nyjblbob]

Yes indeed My Fav Floyd album
Just played the whole thing
95 DB averaged with peaks of 101
With just 22 Watts Triode on my 4343.s
I bet your double 15’s really move some air!

 

[mech986]

Excellent progression on dialing in your 4435's and the listening reviews. As you live with them longer, you will continue to find more to like. I highly recommend putting both 4435's on top of Milwaukee furniture dollies available online or in person at Home Depot. They are 18" deep x 30" wide x 5" tall. They will fit nicely under the 38" W x 17" depth. They can be hidden with suitable cloth coverings. They will lift your speakers about 5 inches which will give you better overall dispersion into your room and listening position and decrease left side reflection off the sofa arm. Plus this makes the speaker a bit easier to move, even on carpet. This is assuming you have room at the ceiling for the Polks if they are still on top of the 4435's.

Placing carpet protection cups under the front wheels can allow for a little tilt as well if needed.

The best $45 you will spend for big speakers like the 4435, 4430, L300 or 4333 series.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-1-000-lb-Capacity-Furniture-Dolly-33700/100057209

A couple of other comments and suggestions. The JBL 2234H's are the same, with both having no ring weights installed as on their cousins, the 2235H's. This allows the woofers to be a little faster in response. They operate in a 1.5 configuration, that is, one woofer is dedicated and crossed over for low frequency reinforcement only. The other woofer is run low and mid frequencies much like the single woofer in the 4430. They should be properly sealed against the baffle with cork gaskets and the requisite 8 clamps and machine screws. Some have suggested adding the JBL 2405 slot tweeter or the JBL 2404 mini-butt tweeter for similar BiRadial dispersion pattern if you want enhanced HF above about 15K. The Radians will cover some of that so experimentation would be useful. WAF is even worse in the below pic so just an external cradle or small baffle to hold the driver is all that's needed.



Getting in and thoroughly cleaning the back internal crossover switch can really improve signal transfer if you decide not to replace it. Always use DeOxit D5 for cleaning, exercise the switch a number of times, then repeat once or twice more. Follow with DeOxit Gold G5 as a contact preservative. Usually a can of each could last a lifetime. Again, another $35 dollars well spent if you don't already have it in your tool box and of course, very usable on other electronics, relays, patch and speaker connectors, controls, etc. especially with vintage electronics.

If you're anal about it, you could also do the same for each wire to driver connection, and if super anal, the wire connections inside the compression driver, plus the banana plugs you are using to connect the speakers and on your patch panel. Otherwise, seriously consider removing the switch altogether, instructions via Zonker92.

Also, consider this experiment: If the Polk subs are the grey boxes down and next to the KEF 104/2's, consider placing the KEF's on top and sliding the 4435's inward the additional 8-10" now afforded you. This will lift the 104/2's up about 12-14" and give you better overall tweeter dispersion and imaging, especially as you get it above the 4435 horn. Since the cavity coupled bass is not particularly dependent on floor reflection, you may or may not notice any bass response change.

The 4435's will benefit from much less width between the speakers and will allow you to "uncover" the left speaker more which probably suffers from some woofer reflective doppler and intermodulation distortion bouncing so directly off the leather sofa. If it were possible to pull the sofa further away from the left 4435, you might find more bass response, either that or maybe even place a reflective or absorbent angled pad or board directing upwards there as a trial. Either way, getting the woofers under the horn more inward and exposed equally should provide better midbass response, and pulling the horns closer will allow for better imaging and a tighter soundstage, not necessarily "smaller" in width. You could place the smaller center channel speakers then on 4435 inside top, use a little museum wax to hold them down once positioning is set. That places them much more visually and aurally in line with your viewing screen instead of being so near the floor and below the faces and pictures.

Another options is to consider trying the Polks further inside instead of so high and along the walls (poorer WAF and visually cluttered though). You're likely getting a lot of sidewall reinforcement so that's why their bass and mid response may sound better. But they are quite high and requires you to upend them to get the tweeters to the right listening level. Consider instead switching places with the KEF's. This may require some juggling since your center channel speakers are now "outside" of the fronts, but it may still work aurally. The normal floor placement allows for more natural tweeter and midrange height placement and maybe even better imaging and soundstage for video viewing, rather than getting a lot of side reflections. This may allow a bit more inward JBL movement but leaves you the issue of where to place the subs. Otherwise, consider placing them outside of the JBL's once you move the JBL's inward. You may find that the easiest compromise and still get sidewall reinforcement to your liking. You may consider a slight acoustic padding adjacent to the tweeter though.

So then what to do with the KEF's? Consider two options, move them to a vertical position on top of the 4435's and experiment with them place anywhere along the tops, with suitable protection of the KEF bottoms and JBL tops, or Inverted vertically (WAF may be poor with the bottoms exposed so cover them). That places the tweeter-midbass pretty much at optimum heights. Or consider placing them on their sides with bottoms facing out. You may find them actually quite listenable in that position.

Hope this provides a lot to think about and try. The initial suggestion about the dollies and switch cleaning will yield tangible benefits, and closer placement may also prove beneficial. Optimizing the JBL's first, and then fitting everything else would be my goal.