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JBL 4435 Harsh Sounding

My impression is that the original poster is attempting to describe a specific problem with harsh distortion and spurious noise, yet some of the responding posters are focusing on the listening space or intrinsic character of the loudspeakers.

Apples and oranges, in my humble opinion.
 
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Here is the ARS mixer info if anyone is interested. https://www.juno.co.uk/reviews/2015...g-system-model-9000-rotary-tabletop-dj-mixer/

I wonder where some of the controls are positioned at, and I also wonder if you are over-driving the amps, which in turn, send a harsh signal to the speakers. In other words, put **** it, get **** out. The mixer as been noted to be "hot" and I really do suspect that the amps are being fed to much input voltage. The positions of the hi-mid-low cut/boost will also contribute to the problem if used in the extremes.
 
The truth is many here have given legitimate guesstimates as to the issue. The reality is there may be 4-5 issues, most likely one or two apply but without putting eyes and ears to it, all are guesstimates. The original OP needs to apply some of the thoughts shared here and come back with the results. Only he can best choose the first course of action based on what he is experiencing in relation to what advice has been shared.

There's my 2 cents...
 
Zonker92 said:
My impression is that the original poster is attempting to describe a specific problem with harsh distortion and spurious noise, yet some of the responding posters are treating the complaint as involving some problems with the listening space or intrinsic character of the loudspeakers.

Apples and oranges, in my humble opinion.
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thank you Zonk. I've heard some systems in my time being an active listener. I believe I can tell if the room has an issue or if the speakers do.

tubed said:
"Party level" decibels
Clipping
:dunno:
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reaching 100 db rms at 4 m is equivalent to producing 112 db at 1m. The 4435's should be able to develop some 122 db as per the spec sheet.

110 db @ 1m should be achieved by feeding them 25 watts of power. I am using 260 watts continuous amps. I don't think clipping is the issue here. there are meters on my mixer that i've kept at unity gain. Green on green, 0dbu out. I respect my ears and listeners :)

WaynerN said:
Here is the ARS mixer info if anyone is interested. https://www.juno.co.uk/reviews/2015...g-system-model-9000-rotary-tabletop-dj-mixer/

I wonder where some of the controls are positioned at, and I also wonder if you are over-driving the amps, which in turn, send a harsh signal to the speakers. In other words, put **** it, get **** out. The mixer as been noted to be "hot" and I really do suspect that the amps are being fed to much input voltage. The positions of the hi-mid-low cut/boost will also contribute to the problem if used in the extremes.
Click to expand...

the mixer sounds quite bright indeed, but not to the point of bringing this much harshness to a system. I'm curious as to impedance matching of source and amp. will look into it.

I've done my audition with the isolators (hi-mid-low) at center position.

Lux Man said:
The truth is many here have given legitimate guesstimates as to the issue. The reality is there may be 4-5 issues, most likely one or two apply but without putting eyes and ears to it, all are guesstimates. The original OP needs to apply some of the thoughts shared here and come back with the results. Only he can best choose the first course of action based on what he is experiencing in relation to what advice has been shared.

There's my 2 cents...
Click to expand...

working on it!
 
OK, that sounds like your in the normal zone for the mixer. I see that the Quad amps have a gain control on the back of them. Do you have them at max? If so, perhaps back them off a little, maybe try them at 1/2 position rather then full.

I have a Sony TA-N55es amp that sounds harsh when the volume control is full bore, at about half power, it is one of the most beautiful amps.

I do think there is a gain mis-match going on...
 
Hey everyone, crossover switch mod complete.

I'm now listening to different speakers!!! The harshness is nearly gone, I could not believe my ears. We're talking a solid 90% improvement in high end clarity.

I had started to disassemble the horn on one of the speakers when I turned up the volume on the first modded one. I proceeded to reassemble the horn and finishing the mod on both speakers.

I cannot speak highly enough of this improvement. If you think you're getting the best of your un modded 4435, there are strong odds you're missing out on a lot. REMOVE THE SWITCH!

Thanks for your advice everyone, and Zonk for helping out with the details.

Further steps now:
1) Speaker placement: I've had the horns on the inside and they were sounding nasty. Now that the switch is gone I get a better idea of the real sound stage capability. I think moving the horns to the outside and angling the speakers to the listening position will make the sound more engulfing. Room width is 6m.
2) Woofers need a recone, as they're spitting and cracking when pushed. Any aftermarket refoam/recone kit to suggest?
3) Rewire the internal cabling of the speakers with fresh cable (I'm open to suggestions) I was considering silver cable with proper shielding and higher gage. I'm surprised such thin cables were even chosen by JBL designers. I always thought the larger the wire, the less resistance, the better the sound (to an extent of course).
4) Change the binding posts to WBTs
5) Bi amp: I am considering forking out on a pair of Mark Levinson ML2s on the tops and getting a cheaper A/B amp on the bottoms. Thoughts?
6) Charge coupled crossovers.

That should bridge the remaining 10% improvement range :))
 
would it be possible that the amps I am using are not powerful enough and are the reason why the woofers are cracking at higher volumes?
 
You may have a amp problem but it's not due to it's lack of power. I've run mine with a 25 watt amp and they are plenty loud and no issues. Quad Elite QMP amps right? Do both sides exhibit the issue, left and right? Does it come from both 15" drivers in each speaker? I've never suggested this before but could you capture it with a recording and post it on YouTube?
 
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hey Lux Man,

I’ll try to capture it this week end. Shouldnt be too hard. Something I noticed is that only the Mid Range woofers cracks, on both sides, however not simultaneously or in the same fashion. As if from having to deal with too much “information”. The bass “helpers” don’t crack at all.
 
hey y'all, thought I'd give you an update.

I've lifted the speakers on a 60 cm subwoofer as I am hosting a party this week end. When running the speakers now (without the subs) the bass is greatly reduced of course and the mids are somewhat less palatable.

HOWEVER, the woofers don't crack anymore when pushed at the same levels! It seems that the floor reflections are responsible for some kind of feedback/resonance, causing the mid range woofers to crack.

This installation (with the subs) is temporary of course.

For the long run, I am considering building 25 cm platform stands for them now with a "half pipe" bin, with an opening on the front, as seen on some of the subwoofers built in the 80s (although I can't for my life remember the model number/brand, help?).

My theory is that by directing the low/low-mid frequencies emanating from the bottom of the cabinets to the front of the soundstage, it would remove unwanted resonance from reentering the cabinets and slightly boost the bass, as I'm keen on a little more thump.

Ideas? let me know your thoughts!

Cheers.
 
Apparently the people at Kenrick Sound have built something of the kind for the 4430s.
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Hi MarioG, welcome to the forums.

The stands in the photo are just some nice stands, a design made popular in the 1970's by Pioneer (or was it Yamaha? I was a little kid back then).

"Scoops", in the context of JBL refers to a particular cabinet design where the back-wave is carried around and projects forward, traveling along a curved surface, sort of like a horn.
 
Hi Willie,

So how about putting a "scoop stand" under the 4435s? Will it project the waves emanating from the sealed bottom of the cabinet forward?

is this the effect of the Kenrick/Pioneer design? the diagonal slab seems to be angled at 45 degrees, technically that would project the waves to the front?

I'm trying to compensate for the loss of bass that results from lifting the 4435s off the ground.
 
Umm - there are no waves emanating from the solid, sealed bottom of a 4435.
Those KenRick things are just very attractive stands to lift the speakers.



Scoop cabinets are actually open internally to the back of the woofer -

4530Scoop.jpg

MarioGharios said:
Hi Willie,

So how about putting a "scoop stand" under the 4435s? Will it project the waves emanating from the sealed bottom of the cabinet forward?

is this the effect of the Kenrick/Pioneer design? the diagonal slab seems to be angled at 45 degrees, technically that would project the waves to the front?

I'm trying to compensate for the loss of bass that results from lifting the 4435s off the ground.
Click to expand...
 
MarioGharios said:
Hi hjames,
If I’m not mistaken, the low frequencies emanate omnidirectionally from the speaker cabinet.
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No offense meant, but you are mistaken. Low frequencies emanate from the Woofer faces, primarily,
and from the back of the woofers through the tuned ports, secondarily.
The cabinet surfaces should not be a radiator of any significance.

jbl-4435.jpg
 
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