I have recently replaced my klipsch heresy with JBL L96. I ran a sub with the heresy and thought that I would with the L96 as well considering the woofer is only 10 in. I understand that the JBL goes considerably lower but thought that light support would be beneficiary. Having said that, I can notice very little change when switching the sub on and off. Any opinions on a sub with the JBL models with a 10 in woofer?
JBL L96 with or without a sub?
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savatage1973
Addicted Member
BINGO!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!! You got it RIGHT!!! If you can obviously "hear" specifically the sub, you have it up too high. If you don't notice it so much, the mains are doing their job and the sub is just "helping out" for that last octave or so. A lot of it depends on your room (and there are many threads on that), but just because you own a sub doesn't mean that all you have to hear is "THUD, THUD, THUD". IMHO, in a properly balanced system with a sub, you should barely notice it is there, until you turn it off. I have 4 pair of JBLs with the 12" woofers, and I still run subs, but that is just for that last octave or so. YMMV
audiomagnate
Addicted Member
Not always. If it's a crappy little lightweight sub with distortion and acoustic anomalies worse than the mains, you're going to hear it even if the levels are properly matched. Almost any speaker benefits greatly from a HIGH QUALITY subwoofer, and the L96 is no exception. JBL literature shows significant rolloff beginning slightly above 50 Hz, so yeah, they need a sub if you want to hear all the music.
Chris Brown
Super Member
I'm curious how you have it configured, and what exactly your goals are. Are you using any kind of high-pass filter on the JBLs when you use the sub, or are the JBLs trying to reproduce the same bass regardless? The biggest "issue" for me when not running a subwoofer is over-excursion risk. Especially in a ported system (such as the L96), it can be fairly easy to over-drive the woofer at very low frequencies. In this case, the main benefit of the sub would be to cover the lowest frequencies, so the JBLs no longer have to. The over-excursion risk is basically eliminated, and overall higher volume can be achieved without fear of damaging anything.
But ultimately how much you benefit from a sub depends on many variables, including what you listen to, how loud you listen, etc. If you aren't having any "issues" that a sub can solve, then it pretty much is a matter of taste at that point.
I understand the subtle nature as my sub was set very well with my klipsch. It is such that the sub is not noticeable at all unless the volume is higher and then it becomes muddy. Some of the issue is that the heresy was so depleted in the low frequency department that my ears are accustomed to the sub doing more work than with the JBL.
I have the sub connecter to the 'speaker B' section of the amp and the JBL connected to the 'speaker A' section
savatage1973
Addicted Member
Basically, what you are describing is that you are exceeding the capacity of the sub or the amplifier feeding it. If anything gets "muddy" or "distorted", whether it be highs, mids or lows, you are pushing something too far. Everything has its limits--some different than others--it just is what it is.
savatage1973
Addicted Member
I'm glad that works for you, but it really has no real basis in science. I run speakers with 12" woofers and then a pair of 10" subs, and they go far deeper and more stable than the 12" drivers. It is a matter of cabinet volume/design and driver specifications. I know people with subs that have 8" drivers that are deeper/faster/harder than the 15" woofers in their mains. Whatever works.
bhunter
The Spherical Cow
Yes, it sounds like you're running the mains full range. The point of a subwoofer, or better still a distrubuted bass system, is to remove the burden of reproducing the very low frequencies by the mains. Consider physically what's being asked of the mains low frequency driver when reproducing low frequencies and where its low to med crossover point is relative to the music.
audiomagnate
Addicted Member
OP: You still haven't told us (unless I missed something) what sub you are using. If it's a cheap, lightweight sub then it's adding more distortion than low end umph. Buy or build a high quality sub (or two or three), keep the bottom octave out of your L96's (which lowers distortion and protects the woofer from damage) and take some time locating and tweaking levels, crossover point (I like 50 Hz most of the time) and you should be quite pleased.
darkblue94
The Devil made me do it.
You do not have the subwoofer / satellite speaker configuration correct. Consult the operation instructions for the ASW 600 subwoofer for the correct implementation.
Chris Brown
Super Member
Even if the L96 wasn't designed with a subwoofer in mind doesn't mean it won't still benefit from one. You said that you have the subwoofer and your L96 speakers hooked directly to your amp. Instead, try to connect your L96 speakers to the speaker outputs on your subwoofer. So the signal will go from your amp to the subwoofer, then from the subwoofer to your speakers. This should prevent the low frequencies that are reproduced by the subwoofer from also being reproduced by your L96 speakers. That may or may not be a better configuration than what you hve now depending on context, but it's worth a try.
Yes I do have it correct as per the manual. The manual states that, if the speakers are large enough, you may run full range. Therefore connecting the sub to the speaker terminals on the back of the amp as well as the speakers to the same terminals.
I just read my previous comment that made no a
sense.... I meant to say that they WERE designed to run full
bhunter
The Spherical Cow
What type of music are you using to judge the effectiveness of the subwoofer. IIRC, the Heresy doesn't produce much below say 40-50Hz whereas the L96s are probably in the 30-40Hz range. Your ASW600 should be down 3dB at 26Hz. BTW, your crossover points for the L96 are 1100Hz and 3700Hz. Some people prefer added bass over midrange clarity; however, I'm in the quality midrange camp. I'd crossover to the subwoofer at say 60Hz and then try running the JBLs both full and high passed to determine which I'd prefer. You also need music that has low frequency content to make the comparison and perhaps some test signals.
BTW, today most manufacturers' recomendations are more concerned about HT than music IMHO. It's like the "large" and "small" on speakers in HT receivers: It's quite meaningless.
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