JBL's sold! Let the Altec Model 19 Project Begin!

[Brad Muller]

Sadly, today is the last day for my beloved JBL's. I sold them for a substantial amount of cash and a pair of Pioneer HPM-150's. Now my Altec Model 19 project with fellow AK member Matt Vandyke can begin! I'm going to miss my JBL's, but I love the Model 19's. Can't wait, like a kid before Christmas!

 

[Zonker92]

Dang. What were those JBLs? They look sort of like L300s, but not really.

Tough sale, but the Model 19s should be very, very sweet.

 

[djnagle]

I'm not to smart and I can't read so post many pictures. I you building stock 19s?

 

[Brad Muller]

They had the same comonents as the L300's, but were a prototype or custom made set. I've had them for about 10 years, so it's not easy to part with them. They weigh in at about 130 pounds. I'll probably kick myself once or twice in the years to come. I'm going to replace them with my Altec Santiago's until the Model 19's are completed. So, I'm not going without by any means. We are building stock Altec Model 19's with the Zilch crossover.

 

[dc270]

With the off color remarks about the Z19 networks I am surprized here! I was gathering the impression the Z19 network was not fit for human consumption! Glad to see you're onboard none the less. I wish you great skill in completeing this task. I have stripped down a set of 19 cabinets and rebuilt them so I know what goes into a properly built set of 19 cabs!

Soon I hope to be on a sililar journey with my TD15M's and 511/902-8T drivers. I am evaluating cabinets at the moment.

What drivers will you be using for the 19's, stock? I tried the Radian 475PB driver on the 811 lens and was completely impressed.

Anyway good luck
DC

 

[Brad Muller]

My friend Matt is an accomplished cabinet maker with the woodshop. Without him, I'd be sunk!:scratch2: He was going to build himself another set and offered to have me come along for the ride! How could I say no after listening to his Model 19's for a couple of hours? They were quite impressive!!! I've been injured and off work for 6 months, so I had to come up with some $$$, so the JBL's had to go. Sometimes you just have to make a leap of faith.:yes:

 

[djnagle]

I've never heard anything bad about the Z19 crossover. I think it will be a great addition. My TD15H were shipped out today. I think those would be great in the 19 cab.

 

[marantzfan]

I've never heard anything bad about the Z19 crossover. I think it will be a great addition. My TD15H were shipped out today. I think those would be great in the 19 cab.

There are a few prominent Altec afficianados on here that have been stating their disapproval of the Z19 crossovers. Keep in mind, I don't know if any of them have actually heard the Z19.

 

[kyle]

There are a few prominent Altec afficianados on here that have been stating their disapproval of the Z19 crossovers. Keep in mind, I don't think any of them have acutally heard the Z19.

It's not that the Z19 is bad, it's not. It sounds better than most alternate xovers and you can bi-amp with it. Plus it's versatile. You can use it with many different speakers.
A properly rebuilt original altec xover also sounds good and it happens to be the case that I prefer the Altec version. I have built and still have the Z19, original Altec and another variant based on Jeff Markwarts work for the Altec 604s. I've also tried a Marchand active xover with both tube and SS amps.
Some people actually do try things before they crack off about them. I'm one of them.

 

[Brad Muller]

All I can say is that Matt's Model 19's sounded so great with the Zilch crossovers, that they made me part with my main set of speakers for the last 10 years.:yes:

 

[dc270]

I hope you keep us updated with photos and feelings of how the build is progressing. I think there is nothing more fun to follow than a build up of a classic platform like the Altec 19. Everyone likes to personlize their projects, I am interesteed in how you choose to make them "yours". Having sold your JBL's must have stung a bit- but with the expectation of a set of 19's to lessen the sting I can understand the attraction all to well!

Hope you can get healed up enough to be able to tip them over and connect the speaker leads.....if you in fact you put them on the bottom where it IS a giant PITA to kook up!

DC

 

[djnagle]

I know what it feels like to sell off something you really want to hold on too. A couple years ago, when everything went to hell here in Michigan, I had a pair of pristine 1962 EV Patrician 700 speakers. They where acturally oiled by a butler every year since new. I made 10k on the deal but as a died in the wool audio nut, it sure did hurt.

 

[bowtie427ss]

There are a few prominent Altec afficianados on here that have been stating their disapproval of the Z19 crossovers. Keep in mind, I don't think any of them have acutally heard the Z19.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Now let me share mine.

There are several newbie model 19 owners and builders who have chosen to dump their stock networks for Z19's. Keep in mind, i don't think any of them have actually heard a pair of properly working 19's with stock networks.

N1201 is one of the components of a model 19. Without it, you no longer have a model 19. It's as simple as that.

Z19 is an excellent, well engineered crossover network that is adaptable to a broad range of 2 way systems, and has been the key component for success in many E-wave systems. I could be a bit resentful that anyone has eluded to me making off color remarks about the Z19.

 

[dc270]

There is plenty of room for both the networks & opinions there of. Having literally A/B both networks, personal preferace led me to the Z19 as being the better one for my application. No slight intended on those with preferance to stock networks- they do have their place I am sure. While it may no longer be an original Altec Model 19, I would consider it an Altec Model 19+!
DC

 

[djnagle]

For the cost of good parts, you can buy the Mini DSP and bi-amp them. That gives you all the flexability you could imagine. Of course you need a second amp, but those are laying around like dead leafs.

 

[marantzfan]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Now let me share mine.

There are several newbie model 19 owners and builders who have chosen to dump their stock networks for Z19's. Keep in mind, i don't think any of them have actually heard a pair of properly working 19's with stock networks.

N1201 is one of the components of a model 19. Without it, you no longer have a model 19. It's as simple as that.

Z19 is an excellent, well engineered crossover network that is adaptable to a broad range of 2 way systems, and has been the key component for success in many E-wave systems. I could be a bit resentful that anyone has eluded to me making off color remarks about the Z19.

Fair enough. I have to admit that I have not heard a completely recapped original crossover so any comparisons I make are a stock crossover versus a Z19. In my opinion, the difference between the two was not subtle. I still have the original crossovers in my 19's they just aren't connected. Maybe one of these days I will give them a proper rebuild and A/B them. :scratch2:

 

[marantzfan]

It's not that the Z19 is bad, it's not. It sounds better than most alternate xovers and you can bi-amp with it. Plus it's versatile. You can use it with many different speakers. A properly rebuilt original altec xover also sounds good and it happens to be the case that I prefer the Altec version. I have built and still have the Z19, original Altec and another variant based on Jeff Markwarts work for the Altec 604s. I've also tried a Marchand active xover with both tube and SS amps. Some people actually do try things before they crack off about them. I'm one of them.

I'm glad you came to your conclusions the way that you did. I hope you haven't taken offense by my statement as it clearly doesn't apply to you.
Now, let's get back to this project; regardless of which crossover is used.

 

[fpitas]

I'm a fan of bi-amping, but experience has taught me that the horn amp is very important. Since the amp will hook directly to the driver with no attenuation, you'll only need a few watts; but the sensitivity of the driver means you'll only be using about 50mW, and you'll hear amplifier artifacts that are normally not audible, or not particularly objectionable. Your typical amp isn't designed to sound its best at such low levels. That's why I got a class A amp for my horns, although a high-bias amp may work fine too. My $ 0.02, etc.

 

[Mmaxed]

Just so we keep this thread off topic for a little longer.

For those that have compared the Z19 to the original network, what is the difference in sound?

I recently built the Z19 for my Vals, and I must say that so far they are not for me. After listening quite a bit I can say that I believe that most people would like them. In looking at the schematics of both they have mostly the same components, Zilch just reconfigured them. So I have the option of doing that, but some have said the original inductors are part of the 19 sound.

 

[dc270]

There in nothing much sweeter sounding than an 811/802 combo on a restored ST70! Put a nice MOSFET on the low end- or better yet a SC MA5200 amp- and really get busy!

My next build I intend to find out just how good a Rane 234 xover will sound with the 511/902's being tube fed and and the TD15M's SS fed....I would pay admission to hear this also done to a set of 19's. The 416 & 811/902 are soooooo well matched that well thought out bi-amplification would seem a fitting thing to do for them.
DC