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Jelco tonearm cartridge compatibility

amrzs

amrzs

New Member
I am currently using a Jelco 250st tonearm with a Denon dl 301mkii cartridge through a DIY step up transformer, and it sounds incredible. My question is would this same cartridge be a good match for a Jelco 750d tonearm? It seems like the 750d is an upgrade in every respect from the 250st and I was thinking of using it for an upcoming lenco ptp project. I'm a bit confused though because Jelco lists the effective mass of the 250st at 18.04g (originally I thought that this figure was lower) and the 750d at 19.23g, which is very close, and places both tonearms in the medium mass range. And while I have always had good luck with medium and higher compliance cartridges with the 250st (other cartridges include shure v15, Shure m97xe, and Denon dl 110) it seems like most people prefer lower compliance cartridges with the 750d such as the Denon dl103. I realize that Denon measures their 103 at 100hz so their compliance figures can be misleading, still there is no mistaking that the dl 103 is a low compliance cartridge that does best on high mass arms and the dl 301 mkii is of medium compliance and does best with medium mass arms. I have heard the dl 103 in the past and I much prefer the dl301mkii, but I'm unsure if my step up transformer is what's giving me the wow factor with the 301 mkii, or if the dl 103 I heard was even properly set up, or some other weak link is to blame, as I've heard great things about this cartridge. Luckily my SUT is compatible with both cartridges, so if I decided to go with a Jelco 750d I could always try both and see what I like. It just seems odd to me that my 250st mates so well with higher compliance, when it's not too far off in mass from the 750d with which lower compliance seems to be preferred. I realize the 750d has oil dampening which could have a lot to do with it. If anyone has experience with the 750d I would greatly appreciate some input. Also my SUT was built with loading impendance and gain ratio with Denon cartridges in mind, so while other cartridges are an option the only low compliance one that would be ideal for my set up that I know of off the top of my head is the dl 103. So if I end up not liking the 103 I guess I would just hate to be stuck with an arm that only mates well with low compliance and have to build another SUT for a different cartridge. While I am used to, and very happy with Jelco tonearms, I am not exactly married to them so I'd also be open to some other suggestions for to medium mass tonearms that would be an upgrade from the 250st, but in a similar price range to the 750d. Anyway, sorry for sort of rambling there, but any input would be appreciated.
 
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not sure where you got the info from stating the EM of the 250ST is 18+gr. it's in the 10-12ish range.
 
I have the Jelco SA-750L (12") and I believe the oil dampening is a big help. The DL-103 is likely a mostly sideways move, imo. It is a nice cartridge tonally, with great bass in the right arm, but the spherical stylus does limit resolution. If you like big tone, you'll like it, but if you are a detail enthusiast, a fine-line LOMC or MI might be worth saving up for.
 
I have the 750D mounted on a Oracle Delphi and it is, by far, the most versatile tonearm I possess.

It is currently mounted with a DL-103R, but I have also used the DL-103, the higher compliance DL-103D and DL-103M, the Dynavector Karat 23R and 17D3, and a Clearaudio Aurum with no problems.

It is the only fluid damped tonearm I have and I imagine that this feature is responsible for it's versatility, although that is just a guess based on my own experimentation.

I also have the SME 309 series I, II and series III, a Linn Ittok, a Rega RB900 and an Oracle Prelude; all can sound quite amazing, but only with fairly careful cartridge matching.

I don't think you will have problems with any of the Denons on this arm.
 
I have a Sumiko MMT, which is kinda-sorta-like the Jelco 750D ( a SA-370 clone to be exact). The Denon DL-301 MKII sounds awesome on it. You'll be fine.
PS. Jelco mis-published the EM on the 250ST in a couple of places.
 
Here we go: effective_mass_jelco_tonearms_WM.jpg


If you use a Technics 12xx headshell and flip the light counterweight the other way around the effective mass become about 10g for the 750D.
 
I have owned the Jelco SA-750D arm and have used it with both the Denon DL-301 mkII and DL-103/103R. In my system the 750D worked better with the 103/103R. The bass was more defined, midrange clear and more dynamic over all. The 301 mkII was kind of lifeless. Now as I said this was in my system. There could have been other factors involved.....
 
That Jelco is a nice arm.... If willing to look at used perhaps check out a Fidelity Research FR54 tonearm. It's a 10" arm and the Denon DL103S sounds fantastic on it as do many other carts. For a higher effective mass use the screw in headshell weights on the Stanton or Technics style headshells ;)

I recently picked up a modified DL103S from eBay seller Sahkha where he'd damped the front of the cart with lead shot, and replaced the cantilever with a Nagaoka which had a Shibata tip on it. I contacted him and he was nice enough to remove the plastic body for me. Once recieved I slipped it into a closed cocobolo wood body from eBay seller Jb_0-0-7 with some glue. This is one of my top carts: a tie between it, my Fidelity Research FR-1 Mk3, my Grado Reference Platinum 1 & Stanton 785LZE. A worthy mention goes to my Grace F9E Ruby & Empire 4000 D/I.

FB_IMG_1485583400592.jpg
 
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sqlsavior said:
I have the Jelco SA-750L (12") and I believe the oil dampening is a big help. The DL-103 is likely a mostly sideways move, imo. It is a nice cartridge tonally, with great bass in the right arm, but the spherical stylus does limit resolution. If you like big tone, you'll like it, but if you are a detail enthusiast, a fine-line LOMC or MI might be worth saving up for.
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I've also had an SA-750L that I used with a ZU Denon 103 and I thought the combo was a fantastic match. I think the key to unlocking the potential of the 103 lies with the SUT choice. I've tried a few and with the Auditorium 23 SUT it's a crazy great combo - not lacking in detail in the least, with amazing bass and the big meaty midrange tone the 103 is famous for. I've had a 301mkii with a Denon AU-340 SUT (no slouch either) and I much prefer the 103 + A23.
 
Crestwood23 said:
I've tried a few and with the Auditorium 23 SUT it's a crazy great combo - not lacking in detail in the least, with amazing bass and the big meaty midrange tone the 103 is famous for. I've had a 301mkii with a Denon AU-340 SUT (no slouch either) and I much prefer the 103 + A23.
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I love the DL-103 as well, and have called it a workingman's reference. I certainly didn't mean to imply that it sounds in any way dull, rolled off, or lifeless, because it sounds fantastic. Some records do have more detail, textures, and air than a spherical stylus can recover, however, or even an elliptical, like the 301. Whether getting at that level of detail is worth the risk to other sonic aspects is a preference issue, imo. It certainly costs more. I prefer using SUTs, too. I would love to hear the Auditorium 23.
 
mjw21a said:
That Jelco is a nice arm.... If willing to look at used perhaps check out a Fidelity Research FR54 tonearm. It's a 10" arm and the Denon DL103S sounds fantastic on it as do many other carts. For a higher effective mass use the screw in headshell weights on the Stanton or Technics style headshells ;)

I recently picked up a modified DL103S from eBay seller Sahkha where he'd damped the front of the cart with lead shot, and replaced the cantilever with a Nagaoka which had a Shibata tip on it. I contacted him and he was nice enough to remove the plastic body for me. Once recieved I slipped it into a closed cocobolo wood body from eBay seller Jb_0-0-7 with some glue. This is one of my top carts: a tie between it, my Fidelity Research FR-1 Mk3, my Grado Reference Platinum 1 & Stanton 785LZE. A worthy mention goes to my Grace F9E Ruby & Empire 4000 D/I.

View attachment 858833
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The Grade F9 ruby is in 5th place?!? Wow. I never would have expected that. It was on my short list for a fresh sound with the MMT. If you aren't using yours.....
 
I don't know how we got into comparing cartridges, and I apologize for my part in that, when the OP asked about tone arms.
I replaced an Oracle (Not the auto-lift) which is a modified SA-250st with a Sumiko Premier MMT on an Alexandria. I didn't have them at the same time and the switch was made before I got the DL-301MKII, so all the comparisons were made from memory using a Shure V15RS-SAS with the brush down. No damping oil. My impressions: not much difference. If anything the MMT gives the bass a bit more presence. But again, it wasn't side-by-side.
 
Probably my fault... I was responding to the reference to the DL103.... Just saying that after mods it's a hard cart to beat. BTW the Grace hasn't broken in yet so things may change, Ditto a number of my carts actually.
 
mjw21a said:
Probably my fault... I was responding to the reference to the DL103.... Just saying that after mods it's a hard cart to beat. BTW the Grace hasn't broken in yet so things may change, Ditto a number of my carts actually.
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If you need help breaking them in; I'll do the Grace for you. ;^)
 
I have a Jelco 750DB with a Grado Sonata 1 mounted which is a medium compliance cartridge and its a great match sonically and physically. Bang per buck the 750 is hard to beat IMO.
 
I think the Grace just broke in today. Truly sublime.... Though at the same time, very very similar to my Fidelity Research FR-1 Mk3. I'm going to have to compare them on the same system for it to be a fair comparison though.

IMG_20170129_132826029.jpg

Still, nothing beats my DL103 or Grado wood bodies for bass/slam. The Grace is superb though.... Just makes you want to put one album on after another
 
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