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Jolida Glass FX III DAC tube recommendations

I made a rather naive assumption it would seem - that as you objected to the use of a valve as DAC OPS on grounds of distortion and noise, that you'd know how much of those undesirable elements a valve introduces. But clearly, my assumption was mistaken - lesson learned.
 
xdd said:
I made a rather naive assumption it would seem - that as you objected to the use of a valve as DAC OPS on grounds of distortion and noise, that you'd know how much of those undesirable elements a valve introduces. But clearly, my assumption was mistaken - lesson learned.
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Show me a tubed DAC with 96dB of dynamic range and -90dB THD.
 
I'm not knowledgeable about DACs containing tubes, but I did recall one being reviewed on Stereophile a while back. Seems that on distortion its at the 0.1% (full-scale)level so fair dinkum if you think that's too high. Plenty of NOS DACs measure poorer than that at high frequencies even with no valves in sight. On noise looks like around 17bits so good enough for RBCD.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/abbingdon-music-research-dp-777-da-processor-measurements

How typical this is for a valved DAC I can't say.
 
That's 17 bits resolution due to noise with 24 bit data. With 16 bits it is -90db or worse "This graph is dominated by analog noise below –90dB, however, suggesting that the Classic mode doesn't quite achieve true 16-bit resolution."
 
Yes, but we are discussing (at least I thought we were) how much degradation a tube stage brings to the party. In 'Classic mode' that DAC's limited by its DAC chip on noise, not its tube stage.
 
xdd said:
Yes, but we are discussing (at least I thought we were) how much degradation a tube stage brings to the party. In 'Classic mode' that DAC's limited by its DAC chip on noise, not its tube stage.
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What the heck is the Philips UDA1305?
 
Nobody apart from AMR seems to know for sure, I have my own suspicions that its either a TDA1545 or TDA1387 under a different marking. Certainly the noise of each those is about right for the 'slightly worse than 16bits' result.
 
gvl, I see where you are coming from and understand the points you are making. on the flip side, sometimes people use a tube pre amp specifically to add some tube sound qualities to their system. I have an integrated solid state amp, so using a tube DAC is my attempt to do the same when I stream. I am always changing things around and often enjoy the differences different components provide, kinda part of my enjoyment. I have the disease pretty badly, have 10 working systems at the moment and could probably put together another 10 with stuff I have on shelves in my main room. Before I could afford a stereo system, I ushered at the San Francisco Symphony once a week for about 5 years and then was a season ticket holder for another 3 years. So I do not enjoy or expect sterile, analytical presentations of emotional music. The "ambient" sounds of coughing, feet shuffling, pages turning, etc are all familiar to me do not get in the way, at all, of connecting with the artist(s) as they perform. Each to their own and one is no better than the other, but perhaps that, in part, explains why we have different viewpoints. Best to you. John
 
Hi gvl, greetings to you. I bought a used Schiit Gungnir Multibit with Gen 5 USB and have let it warm up for about 24 hours. Just did a quick A/B with the Meridian CD using the optical out. They are very close, I would have to spend a lot more time to be able to articulate any differences. My initial impression is that the Gungnir is a bit brighter and harsher, but only just a little bit. In a live performance, that could be the difference in rooms and stage height, layout. So I don't want to say one is more correct than another since I really do not know what the original sounded like live. I am listening to Dianna Krall. The Schiit DAC costs about 2x what the Jolida costs, and it is really for a different purpose, but still interesting to do the comparison that you suggested. If I have any additional thoughts after listening for a few weeks, I will post again.
 
I should have also noted that the previous owner told me that the Gungnir needs to warm up for several days before it really opens up and sounds the best. My bad.
 
Well, congrats. A Schiit multibit DAC would not be my first choice for the reasons I prefer to not reiterate for the sake of keeping the blood pressure of some members here at safe levels, but the Gungnir should be sufficiently performant for CD playback, and if it works for you that is all that matters. The need to warm it up for days is a myth, half an hour is more than enough. Schiit multibit DACs have a good resale value, that's a plus.
 
Tubes have greater dynamic range than most transistors/op-amps due to higher operating voltages and overload tolerance. The false information in here is sad. Tubes are not a limiting factor for DR, never have been, never will be. One of the issues with many Tube DACs is they they are just simply adding a tube buffer on top of the transistor op amps. The cool thing with the Jolida DACs is they use tubes INSTEAD of transistors. I have an OPPO Sonica DAC and Jolida DSD tube DAC side by side in my setup and I tend to prefer the Jolida. This is totally subjective but it has less of an "edge", "digititus", "grain" and more "musical", "analog", "euphoric" (or whatever adjective you prefer to use) to it. Tubes tend to have higher distortion but it is even order harmonics as opposed to odd order harmonics that transistors tend to produce, though at vanishingly small amounts. .1%, if audible at all, will add a bit of sweetness to the sound. it's an artificial sweetness but its pleasing, none the less. YMMV
 
tube-it, thank you for your reply and information. I am glad to know the Jolida uses tubes RATHER than transistors and then tubes in the output section. I agree with your comments about the sound. I have two of these and enjoy the sound. So back to my original question, do you have a recommendation as to tubes which sound best with these. I now have lightly used RCA 12AX7 and lightly used RCA black top 12AX7's. I can barely, barely tell the difference if I try. I am using a Classe 47.5 pre and CJ Classic 60 SE power with Vienna Acoustics Beethoven speakers, good wire. Thank you again!
 
John Parkey said:
tube-it, thank you for your reply and information. I am glad to know the Jolida uses tubes RATHER than transistors and then tubes in the output section. I agree with your comments about the sound. I have two of these and enjoy the sound. So back to my original question, do you have a recommendation as to tubes which sound best with these. I now have lightly used RCA 12AX7 and lightly used RCA black top 12AX7's. I can barely, barely tell the difference if I try. I am using a Classe 47.5 pre and CJ Classic 60 SE power with Vienna Acoustics Beethoven speakers, good wire. Thank you again!
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Funny you should ask, Part of my boredom remedy during this pandemic has been tube rolling, I've mostly been playing with my mc240 and have not been messing around with the Jolida much as of yet, but will be doing some tonight and this week. I've just moved from sovtek 5751 to JJ ECC83s today. I think I like the JJs better but I have a set of RCA long black plates, GEs, RCA 12au7 clear tops, Sovtek 12ax7lps, Tung-Sol 12ax7, and a set of new production Mullard 12ax7s on order. I'll keep this thread posted as I move through the tubes. The Clear tops tend to be very clean yet tad forward/bright when used in the mc240. these will have less gain than the 12ax7 but might be an interesting experiment :)

My system is MX110z, mc240 and JBL Olympus S8Rs. the JBLs are very forward speakers so I tend to prefer the more laid back tubes to complement them.
 
Just be careful when swapping tubes on the Jolida as the tube sockets are mounted on the curcuit board and you'll need to be careful not to crack the the solder joints. That's my biggest complaint about this dac..The sockets should be chassis mounted.
 
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