Dave Shick
New Member
Got two of these free about 6 years ago. Decided to go ahead and put back in operation. Re-foamed the 10 woofers. A little wire repairing. Mainly wonder about the Walnut. Use Veneer or maybe laminate formica?
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JSE Infinite Slope Model 2
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Dave Shick
New Member
These are to go along with the 4 Kenwood KL-777, Sansui SP-200 (perfect-very old, I think came out about 1966, also Free), 2 Yamaha NS-8383. Receivers Kenwood KR-9940, Yamaha CR-2040, Marantz 2275.
goodolpg
Just an old fart trying to help.
I guess it depends on your skills with laminates and veneers.
Based on the bottom image they were OEM with wood front baffles?
If you have the grilles it might be easier to paint the front baffles, if you don't have or wouldn't use grilles, to retain OEM veneer would seem the better choice.
Laminates might be more damage resistant though may not appear as originally produced.
If you intend to keep them do what you would like. If considering future selling take into consideration that cosmetics can play a large part in perceived value.
Based on the bottom image they were OEM with wood front baffles?
If you have the grilles it might be easier to paint the front baffles, if you don't have or wouldn't use grilles, to retain OEM veneer would seem the better choice.
Laminates might be more damage resistant though may not appear as originally produced.
If you intend to keep them do what you would like. If considering future selling take into consideration that cosmetics can play a large part in perceived value.
Dave Shick
New Member
Sorry I forgot the inch, they were 10 and the ones on bottom 12 INCH
Dave Shick
New Member
These came out in about 1980. I think about $2000 for the pair. They have grilles already. Just need to get new fabric. Very sophisticated drivers. Serial number a little over 1000 on each. Made With veneer Real wood glued on but after 40 years, hot, and moisture it had split and lifted/split so removed, that and glue, sanded. I have seen two refurbished sell for over $1000. Most speakers today and newer do not use veneer. I have a woodworking shop so I am trying to decide how I should finish these up.
Dave Shick
New Member
Also I think I had just seen a pair where the veneer had been removed the the speaker cabinet painted black. $699
Dave Shick
New Member
I am in Virginia and a business in Maryland sells about Every type of real wood veneer. 2 4 x 8 walnut sheets over $200
Dave Shick
New Member
Even as they are now connected to the amp sounded perfect, at least half volume playing a Mannheim Steamroller Christmas CD....no veneer needed for the music!
dogwan
Dogwan
Former cabinetmaker here... in my opinion these deserve to be re-veneered. Whether it's close to the original, or a different species, they are high-end enough that they really should look the part. And, I always advocate for hand rubbed oil finishes (vs. Lacquer or Poly) as it will be much easier to re-apply and/or blend in repairs down the road.
That being said, I also believe a case can be made for High Pressure Plastic Laminate (aka: Formica). None of that fake wood looking stuff, just a solid color. My reasoning is that if you use good horizontal grade laminate you end up substantially stiffening the cabinet and reducing resonances. I've had very good results doing this to cabinets that were beyond being economically feasible restoration. That's not to say there isn't risk of changing the sound if the original designer voice around the cabinet resonance. But, it's hard to imagine many scenarios where reduced cabinet resonance makes a speaker sound worse.
Me? I'm not very risk adverse and if I don't have much money invested I usually am willing to take a chance.
That being said, I also believe a case can be made for High Pressure Plastic Laminate (aka: Formica). None of that fake wood looking stuff, just a solid color. My reasoning is that if you use good horizontal grade laminate you end up substantially stiffening the cabinet and reducing resonances. I've had very good results doing this to cabinets that were beyond being economically feasible restoration. That's not to say there isn't risk of changing the sound if the original designer voice around the cabinet resonance. But, it's hard to imagine many scenarios where reduced cabinet resonance makes a speaker sound worse.
Me? I'm not very risk adverse and if I don't have much money invested I usually am willing to take a chance.
I agree. I have a set of Model 2s too and they are in the queue for a cabinet re-veneer. If you look up images of JSE Infinite Slope Model 2 and find the ones with the fake slate stone Formica you'll see why(not my choice, acquired them that way). Structurally, they are some of the most solid built speakers I've ever owned. Doubled-up 3/4" mdf for the driver board so I don't think the exterior finish will impact the cabinet sound much.
They suffer the typical issue of low name recognition/low perceived value when you see them on the market. Very unfortunate as they are really good speakers with high quality drivers and build quality and they received goods reviews when they were introduced. They sound great and are relatively easy to drive from an amp perspective.
IMO these speakers are worth investing some time and $$ into them.
@dogwan , in your professional opinion, what is the best way to remove well bonded Formica without destroying the substrate? That's what has delayed my re-veneer progress, unlike OP, the veneer on my Model 2s is still well bonded.
dogwan
Dogwan
My go to for removing P-lam is Lacquer Thinner. Get some sort of plastic bottle with a squeeze cap that you can direct a fine stream. I used to get glue bottles from our hardware supplier... the kind where you cut that cap according to what size opening you want. Instead of cutting the cap I used to run a 1/16 drill bit through from the inside.
For each panel of P-lam you want to remove, position so that it is vertical and start at the top edge so that the Lacquer thinner flows downhill. Once you get it started just move slowly while simultaneously pulling the laminate and keeping the leading edge of unreleased glue wet. Let the solvent do the work, but you shouldn't need to flood it. Just keep it wet as you move along.
That always worked for me. You will still have the remaining glue residue to deal with on the substrate. Sometimes if it's a thin enough layer you might be able to "scrub" it off with more Lacquer thinner if you have lots of rags, but I never had the patience for that. I usually just went at it with a belt sander. Be careful though because if you're not practiced at that it is very easy to create an uneven surface for you later veneer job. You can do damage very fast with a belt sander.
One word of caution: if you don't know who put the P-lam on do an indiscreet test. You never know what glue they used. Contact cement is the standard and the lacquer thinner will work. I once worked on a remodel job where a previous hack used Liquid Nails troweled over the entire surface of an end cabinet. The adhesive had aged about 20 years and nothing was getting it off. I ended up having to do surgery to remove the end panel to replace and start over.
Also, exercise due safety precautions. I.e., well ventilated area, wear appropriate PPE (personal prot. equp.), dispose of solvent soaked rags properly, etc.
Dave Shick
New Member
Dave Shick
New Member
I will add that I used Acetone to remove the veneer glue on the particle board, Took a LOT of rubbing and sanding...half sheet (a Bosch and a Porter Cable sanders) 60 and then 120. I now think the speaker cabinets look brand new ready for the veneer. I had read this making this choice.
Do not use lacquer to dissolve glue, but particle boards come with a factory finish which protects it from moisture, which the lacquer thinner will eat away. Therefore if the glue is on the surface use alcohol; apply denatured alcohol to the glued area and wait for it to dissolve.
Acetone worked a little better then the alcohol...no damage to the particle board.
Do not use lacquer to dissolve glue, but particle boards come with a factory finish which protects it from moisture, which the lacquer thinner will eat away. Therefore if the glue is on the surface use alcohol; apply denatured alcohol to the glued area and wait for it to dissolve.
Acetone worked a little better then the alcohol...no damage to the particle board.
dogwan
Dogwan
I will always be the first to admit that no matter how experienced anyone is there is always more to learn. Over 20 years experience in the industry after a 2 years of formal training under 30 year plus veterans I have never heard of or seen Particle Board or MDF with factory finish to protect it from moisture? I know there are some specialty products out there based on those two substrates for very specific applications, but don't see speaker manufacturers using those products due to expense. PB and MDF are after all generally manufactured to be substrates and whichever skin is selected and applied would then constitute whatever protection layer is needed according to the application.
I don't make the above statement to start a pissing match. I just have a hard time buying your statement based on my experience.
Now, even if there were a protective coating on the particle board (under the P-lam, under the contact cement) I don't see it being a major issue to remove it chemically in the process of removing the P-lam because...
- the speakers are likely to remain indoors, not outdoors
- prepping to glue on the veneer would involve sanding through that finish anyway
- The veneer glue, veneer, and eventual finish wound defacto become a protective layer against moisture of the PB
Dave Shick
New Member
I will say this is NOT all I said. "particle boards come with a factory finish which protects it from moisture, which the lacquer thinner will eat away"
I ONLY pointed out the way I prepped MY Speaker cabinets. Nothing more nothing less. No one else can do it that way or someone else can try it. It is their business. This person said he needed to do something similar so that is the ONLY reason I made the comment. Shall I delete it? I will NOT say anything about all the woodworking I have done in my life. I just pointed out the project I was working on.
I ONLY pointed out the way I prepped MY Speaker cabinets. Nothing more nothing less. No one else can do it that way or someone else can try it. It is their business. This person said he needed to do something similar so that is the ONLY reason I made the comment. Shall I delete it? I will NOT say anything about all the woodworking I have done in my life. I just pointed out the project I was working on.
