Just acquired need advice: ROK Rondine Deluxe, ESL/Ortofon S1/2000? arm

[Sunstang]

Hey all - I just made a killer Goodwill score - acquired a Rek-O-Kut Rondine Deluxe, with what (after a bunch of google image search sleuthing) appears to be an ESL/(Ortofon?) S1000 or S2000 arm. No measurement markings on the side wheels, but has the spring thing hanging off the back.

I've read a bunch of different threads on this site and others in order to get the TT lubed up, spinning about correctly, idler wheel tightened, etc.

My problem is, the arm didn't come with a headshell, and it's that rotated plus or diamond shape pin configuration, rather than the standard square shaped. Does anyone know how I can get my hands on a compatible headshell? Also, does anyone know which carts are compatible?

 

[Sam Cogley]

Nice table, that's the top of the line B12H with the huge Ashland motor.

 

[fiddlefye]

Very cool set up. Uh, what is on the right side of the base in the first shot? Pardon my ignorance...

 

[Sam Cogley]

Looks like a Jim Beam ashtray.

 

[bimasta]

Great score! Looks in good shape too — minor veneer chip, easily fixed, but the metalwork all seems really clean and scratch-free considering it's age!

Yes it's the ESL arm. I have one in my closet and just examined it. Best solution, obviously, is wait for the right diamond-shaped headshell(s) to appear for sale.

But if that takes too long, or is wildly expensive due to scarcity, I thought of two pretty clever solutions (please forgive my pat on my own back).

1.Buy one of the more modern shells that have Azimuth Adjustment (usually a lock-screw on the side, that loosens the clamping arrangement around the insertion-barrel) so the shell can be rotated. Usually for fine-tuning of 1° or 2°, it can also be rotated a full 90°! This converts the barrel's standard square shape into the diamond-shaped arrangement you need.

It now needs a minor mod. The problem is the little pin on top of the barrel that fits into the slot on top of the armtube — and locks the shell in place when you tighten the collar — will now be pointing sideways! No good.

Pull the pin out gently and set aside. Now drill a tiny hole (same diameter as the pin) in the newly-positioned top of the barrel, and insert the pin in the new hole. It will now slide into the arm, lock in with the collar, and the contact-pins will line up with the arm's internal diamond-shaped contracts.

You must drill the hole accurately of course — but here you can use the slot on top of the armtube as a drill guide: just insert the new headshell and line it up, then insert the drill-bit into the slot — and drill the hole

Alignment should be spot-on, but if it's slightly off — well, the headshell is azimuth-adjustable and can easily correct a small error.

Downside: Losing the authenticity and retro-appeal of the old headshell.
Upside: A more modern headshell that accepts a much wider range of cartridges. For example, I have two or three really nice carts with bodies much too wide to ever fit into that old headshell because of its narrow sides.

Another way to do it: Those ancient wires should probably be replaced by new, better wire anyway. In this case, might as well insert a new female socket/locking collar at the same time. That way you can orient it to the standard square-shaped contact array.

It's much easier to explain with pictures (worth 1000 words) and I'll try to do that tomorrow.

But someone may offer a better

 

[bimasta]

Sorry, hit the wrong key, and posted by mistake, incomplete.

I was moving the second option (rewire with new socket/collar) to be the first option. It's easier, and you can get the socket/collar assembly, readily on ebay, already prewired with quality new wire, usually to fit SME arms.

But as I was saying, before I interrupted myself, someone may offer a better solution — or who knows, even a bunch of NOS original shells.

Good luck with it. and let us know how it goes.

Bima

 

[Sam Cogley]

Or find and install a different arm.

 

[Sunstang]

Bimasta, all, thanks for the responses! Yes, it's a vintage Jim Beam ashtray mounted on the right side, covering a hole in the case I'm guessing cabling once was routed through.

The plinth and tt are looking pretty good now, after a day or two of serious elbow grease, but were caked with dust and yellowy lacquered cigarette residue when I got er.


Bima - you mentioned the possibility of replacing the female socket/ring on the arm - the connectors seem to be press-fitted into the tube of the arm, and neither they or the retaining ring appear to be removable. Can you elaborate?

I did find an aftermarket headshell on the auction site that appears/claims to be a fit, but somewhat expensive. It's custom made from olive wood and not the cheapest at ~115 usd.

I'd love to be able to modify the arm to take a standard headshell, but looking at how it is constructed, not sure how doable it is...

 

[bimasta]

Yes, I looked at mine, looking for a screw or rivet. Can't see one. So like you say, either press-fit or glued in there. Still, must be doable somehow.

Meanwhile, my other suggestion will work (if you can figure out the 1000 words I took to describe it). I tested it by plugging in a standard headshell bayonet-mount, and it fit the ESL perfectly: right diameter, right depth.

Then, using the azimuth adjustment, the bayonet can be rotated 45° to fit the diamond-shaped contacts inside the ESL. (I incorrectly said 90° in my first post.)

The hassle is the little locating-pin on the standard headshell — it must be relocated 45°.

But it's a small hassle, and gives you a wider range of headshells to use.

 

[Mister Pig]

I had that arm on my TD 124 when I got it. The stock head shell is expenisve to find, usually a $100+ and often in bad shape. Personally I never though the arm to be worth investing serious money into the head shell retrofit or finding a stock one in good condition. I pulled it off and installed a modern fixed head shell arm.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

[bimasta]

Sunstang, another thing to consider is selling the arm. I had one 20 years ago it went on ebay for about $300 (with headshell). I was amazed; like Mr Pig, it didn't look like much to me. But there was a market for it, at least 20 years ago. ESL had some relationship to Ortofon, and old Ortofon arms are fetching high prices. If you can research that relationship and establish the connection, you may make enough $$ to finance a more useful arm. No downside if you offer it with a reserve price, and it fails to sell.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Your ESL headshell uses the EMT/Neumann type headshell connector. A hard headshell to find. Expect some hunting to find one. Ortofon/SME/JIS is the common type.

 

[Sunstang]

Quick update: I bought a cheap ($10 shipped) headshell from Amazon, pulled the registration pin, rotated the barrel 45 degrees with a pair of pliers, installed an oooooold Shure Hi-Track cart, and jerry rigged the apparatus to the tonearm with zip ties for basic TT testing. She plays old beater vinyl like a champ! I'm sure everything is way off as far as tracking weight, (30 cents seems to do the trick at the moment , azimuth angle, etc. but this was just for wiring and deck testing purposes. I've found a compatible headshell on fleabay and will pick it up when I'm a bit more flush.

Suggestions on carts to use with this? (by "with this" I don't mean the hack job in the photo, but the proper headshell I'm looking at acquiring.)

 

[Sunstang]

This is the headshell I have my eye on. It's not original, but supposedly compatible, and I think fairly attractive.

 

[fiddlefye]

Quick update: I bought a cheap ($10 shipped) headshell from Amazon, pulled the registration pin, rotated the barrel 45 degrees with a pair of pliers, installed an oooooold Shure Hi-Track cart, and jerry rigged the apparatus to the tonearm with zip ties for basic TT testing. She plays old beater vinyl like a champ! I'm sure everything is way off as far as tracking weight, (30 cents seems to do the trick at the moment , azimuth angle, etc. but this was just for wiring and deck testing purposes. I've found a compatible headshell on fleabay and will pick it up when I'm a bit more flush.

Suggestions on carts to use with this? (by "with this" I don't mean the hack job in the photo, but the proper headshell I'm looking at acquiring.)

You sure didn't let the grass grow under your feet on this one, did you! Good bit of quickie DIY there.

 

[Sunstang]

Hah! Thanks! No, I like to tinker, and don't especially like to wait...

I have plans to make this my main listening deck, but there are quite a few steps in the way between now and then.

The idler wheel rubber is quite stiff, so there's rumble - it's livable at 33, but sounds like an unbalanced washing machine at 78rpm.

So, idler wheel refinishing or replacement is on the agenda. Anyone know of compatible aftermarket idler wheels? Or is refinishing the only route available?

I've found replacement rubber chassis mounts for about three bucks a pop on fleabay, and I believe this machine takes six of em, so that's on the agenda.

I've also heard that replacement of the ball bearing that the platter spindle rides on with a fresh 5/16" ceramic is a good plan, so that's on the to-do list.

Some people have reported good luck with creating sorbothane gaskets between the deck plate and the plinth, and even under the tonearm mount, for further vibration isolation, so I might experiment with that.

Finally, the current "plinth" is really a wooden box, so I might look into fabbing up a proper stacked plywood plinth for increased mass.

But, first things first - functional headshell, paired with a decent cart and stylus!

 

[totem]

Since the EMT diamond pin orientation is being discussed, Kent mentioned the more common later style used and adopted by
SME/JIS. A not commonly known fact is the first series 1 SME 3012's and 3009's used a version of the EMT pattern
that was able to be rotated from the diamond pattern to the later more common square JIS by simply rotating the collar.

Future proofing from one standard to the next, showing some foresight it seems.

 

[fiddlefye]

Hah! Thanks! No, I like to tinker, and don't especially like to wait...

I have plans to make this my main listening deck, but there are quite a few steps in the way between now and then.

The idler wheel rubber is quite stiff, so there's rumble - it's livable at 33, but sounds like an unbalanced washing machine at 78rpm.

So, idler wheel refinishing or replacement is on the agenda. Anyone know of compatible aftermarket idler wheels? Or is refinishing the only route available?

I've found replacement rubber chassis mounts for about three bucks a pop on fleabay, and I believe this machine takes six of em, so that's on the agenda.

I've also heard that replacement of the ball bearing that the platter spindle rides on with a fresh 5/16" ceramic is a good plan, so that's on the to-do list.

Some people have reported good luck with creating sorbothane gaskets between the deck plate and the plinth, and even under the tonearm mount, for further vibration isolation, so I might experiment with that.

Finally, the current "plinth" is really a wooden box, so I might look into fabbing up a proper stacked plywood plinth for increased mass.

But, first things first - functional headshell, paired with a decent cart and stylus!

After first checking to see the state of the bearing in the idler I'd send it off to Terry's Rubber Rollers and get new rubber put on. He can make a complete new one as well if needed (last I spoke with him he had one in stock in your size, not mine). Something to note is that there are two pin sizes for these. I have the later model B-12H and there was apparently a change between your earlier model and mine. Maybe put a micrometer on it and see what it is exactly?

On mine I've not noted any audible rumble getting across to the arm, only through the platter. I suppose this might vary depending on the arm you mount. The notion of the sorbothane sounds interesting, though I would think one would want to think very carefully about what energies get transferred to the plinth and where. It seems to me that in the area around the motor one would want to transfer as much of the energy as possible into the plinth. Maybe some pads at various point in the vibration path?

I have a ceramic bearing to put in mine as well, but haven't got around to installing it yet.

I'm not sure how you feel about the appearance of the original box plinth, but I'm planning on building an inner plinth for mine that will fit inside the original so as to keep the appearance as stock as possible while trying for some improvement in the rumble department. I just can't bring myself to toss a nice solid mahogany box.

 

[Sunstang]

Hey fiddlefye, that deck of yours is a beaut! Looks like your box plinth is nicer than mine, if yours is solid mahogany. Mine is plywood with a veneer. Not ugly, but not amazing either. By pin size, do you mean the diameter of the shaft that the idler wheel rides on? I have a set of calipers and can measure if so. Any ballpark idea what the price was on that new idler from Terry?

I don't have any rumble from the bearing really - only audible when the idler engages, so I'm guessing a new or refurbished wheel would do the trick. Have you replaced the rubber grommets on your deck?

 

[fiddlefye]

Hey fiddlefye, that deck of yours is a beaut! Looks like your box plinth is nicer than mine, if yours is solid mahogany. Mine is plywood with a veneer. Not ugly, but not amazing either. By pin size, do you mean the diameter of the shaft that the idler wheel rides on? I have a set of calipers and can measure if so. Any ballpark idea what the price was on that new idler from Terry?

I don't have any rumble from the bearing really - only audible when the idler engages, so I'm guessing a new or refurbished wheel would do the trick. Have you replaced the rubber grommets on your deck?

Yes, by pin size I mean the the one the idler runs on. The earlier B-12H had one size, the later version one slightly different. No idea why the change. I would definitely check when ordering. I do know that awhile back Terry had one in your size that he had made up for a customer who then didn't take it. Solid turned aluminum center on the ones he makes from scratch. I think the brand new ones were a titch over $100, but just getting new rubber on the old one is a lot less, 40-odd dollars if I recall. You can check at Terry's website and it will tell you the exact prices of the moment. http://www.terrysrubberrollers.com/ There are other people do the job as well, just I've spoken with Terry and he is a super guy and comes highly recommended by many. The bearing in my idler is a bit worn so I'm going to get a while new one made when I get to that point. Saving pennies.... I would check and see how much slop there is between the bushing in the idler and the pin before deciding which way to go on that. There are also the pads/bushing (whatever you call them) that the idler rides on and on top to consider. I'm looking into replacing those, though with exactly what exact bits I've not at this point decided. I know there are some discussions in the long R-O-K thread.

I get exactly what you do, not a hint of noise until the idler engages. It isn't all that bad even at that, but then I have changed the motor grommets (it does certainly make a difference!) and maybe my idler isn't quite as hard as yours being a few years newer.

I love these decks for their overall quality and robust simplicity. I ended up with a Nottingham arm on mine because it is almost a drop-in fit and I found one at a price I couldn't refuse. The sound quality is really remarkable in my experience, incredibly vibrant. Maybe the arm and the Benz Glider cart are overkill for the deck, but not in my opinion. Loving the musicality of the whole.