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just curious ....

caferacer59

Active Member
Bought a PAS 3, worked great for about a week of heavy use, now I lose one channel about 80% gone after about an hour of play time, just slowly disappears.

Any thoughts, with work I haven't even opened it up yet, but i did have time to write this lazy email.
 
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When it happens again, wiggle any pots and/or switches or buttons. If it pops back in, then you just need to do some deoxing.

If there is no affect, then it gets a little deeper like heat related stress or solder joints acting up.....or even a tube.
 
sometimes, the tube pins and sockets get a dirty connection, and need cleaning, next time it happens, try wiggling the tubes a little.
If it comes back, that may be the problem. it could also be a leaking cap, or bad resistor
 
Dynaco were also in kit form.
Check for a loose connection when on with a chop stick or similar non conductive implement.

Sometimes heating up will cause thermal expansion on weak connections.
 
Deoxit is pretty safe. Been using it for years. Plus, it is made just for pots and switches...even phenolic. I don't think I have seen any negative threads around here about deox products. Just don't use WD-40. Ask me how I know! :D
 
Everyone around here uses it and in my experience (some 40+ years) never had a problem! Funny, they're even a sponsor here.

Not saying not to use air because that also works, I'm just saying that deox probably won't catastrophically destroy your pots. I have yet to see one that was. I'm not too keen on tv tuner cleaner but it has a few of the same deox chemicals.
 
Everyone around here uses it and in my experience (some 40+ years) never had a problem! Funny, they're even a sponsor here.

Not saying not to use air because that also works, I'm just saying that deox probably won't catastrophically destroy your pots. I have yet to see one that was. I'm not too keen on tv tuner cleaner but it has a few of the same deox chemicals.
I had to use "Tuner Renu" once on stubborn Sansui selector switch. Those terminals and the rotor were black, even Deox-it was no help!
I've heard Fader lube is for pots carbon tracks and Deox-it is not safe for them. I had one where Deox-it completely washed out ground side pad from carbon track in Pioneer SX 828 and I was getting input playing at "0" position.
 
Peter, you're 100% correct......but there is a 'statistical' argument that can be made that applies to the likelihood of actually having the kind of catastrophic results you're describing really happen. When one thinks about what 'can' happen, this often includes a good many alternate outcomes. A different scenario is depicted to asking 'what's likely to happen'.....and this is where the probability of catastrophic results is really quite minimal. As mentioned, a good many people have been using the 'DeOxit' product successfully for decades. I dare say it's perhaps one of the best of such products on the market. I'd also mention that virtually any control that would fail as a result of being sprayed out with this stuff was a control that was probably on it's last legs anyway. So, the 'spray-out' was really just proverbial straw that broke the camel's back....but not really the 'cause' of the failure.

I've personally done a fair amount of research on this particular subject. There are a number of products on the market that, with one application, you could literally destroy a perfectly good control. Most of those products state pretty clearly that they should NOT be used for this purpose. So, in reality, this becomes a case of 'mis-application'.... surely not intentional....but still, it's 'tech error'. As you mentioned, the media used for construction of many of these older controls was also quite different from vendor to vendor.....with some being significantly better than others. Personally, I'm somewhat in your camp.....and I believe just some good old compressed air is the best way to start. Particularly when attempting to service a control that in all likelihood cannot be replaced. I've run into this on some old Harman Kardon units....where finding a dual-gang volume control wasn't really too difficult, but finding one with the proper 'loudness tap' was virtually impossible. Fortunately, Mr. Mark Oppat in Michigan was able to 'construct' a new control for me. Mark, as you may know, bought up just about all the NOS controls from about every major vendor.....and now has pretty much cornered the market on providing suitable replacements. He's a great guy and will work with anyone to get the right control for the needed project.

Anyway.....some times the best option is to simply remove the control completely, disassemble it, and 'gently' clean it by hand with soft cloth or microfiber towel or something similar. Even a MILD solution of dish soap in warm water can be a better cleaner for an old grease-fouled control that spraying the hell out of it with a solvent-based aerosol can! And, as long as dried properly, or even 'blown out' with compressed air, this can be a better and more effective method to preserve what you've got! Just don't go spraying soapy water all over the place!........lol. Finally, it's also important to GENTLY lubricate the shaft in the ferrule after all this is done.....and wipe away any excess material. DO NOT apply so much as to wick back into the control itself. Generally a drop off the end of a pin is enough!

So..... beware of what the spray cans say.....and 'yes'...they can dissolve both the backing plate material, and the conductive media applied to it. But, if you are going to use a spray, then something designed specifically for such controls.....like DeOxit..... is probably not going to result in a problem. Just spray it in, work it a few times, then blow it out and don't let it 'sit' on the control surface for too long.

Hope this helps!!

Tom D.
 
some of the cautions to which I referred were from Caig Labs, the maker of Deoxit

I've run across the assertion that alcohol is appreciably conductive before, and thought it odd, to say the least. Surfing around, I didn't see any such assertion from anywhere except Caig Labs, and plenty of contrary assertions. My own conclusion is that someone at Caig Labs cut class the day polar vs ionic compounds were covered.

YMMV,

chazix
 
Deoxit is pretty safe. Been using it for years. Plus, it is made just for pots and switches...even phenolic. I don't think I have seen any negative threads around here about deox products. Just don't use WD-40. Ask me how I know! :D
I've had success with wd40 but pretty sure that's what stripped the carbon off my Stromberg Carlson preamp
 
phenolics just aren't tolerant of chemicals

I believe you. My only argument with Caig's advice is about the conductivity of alcohol. I think it would be better if that particular bit of advice did not get propagated. Cheers!
 
I've had much better luck with boring old CRC QD cleaner than DeOxit on phenolic. No residue, which also means it doesn't attract further dust.

before getting too far along, just operate the controls including the tape monitor switch to see if it pops back.
 
i think my thread got hijacked -Gonna open it up this weekend, reverse the tubes to start with and see if show the problem on the opposite channel, to begin with.

Carryon while I google what ever the hell phenolic means. thanks guys - just kidding around
 
Great advice from Aiken! The only addition I'd make to it would be to make sure you have an adequate light source for being able to properly see what you're doing, and even if you don't think you need them, a good set of magnification working glasses is a big help too. I use a 2.5X or 3X, and some times even the magnifier that's in my desktop light fixture. Pete, I don't know if you have those 'Harbor Freight' stores in your end of the world, but they're all over here in the US. I purchased a 'ring' type desk lamp, fluorescent type light surrounding about a 4" magnifying glass. While I rarely use the glass part, the light is wonderful, easily flexible around to different viewing angles, and there are times when the added magnification comes in handy. And, it's cheap! I think it was all of about $22 after use of the barrage of discount coupons they offer. Good lighting and vision is another 'must' when working on this stuff! WC
 
Have taken apart many, many pots and most could not possibly be cleaned with air, way too much build up...

Another point, if the pot has failed, then there is not much danger in making it worse. If the substrate is cracked then there is no fixing them, but if it's good then the carbon is also good in most cases.

If a pot has failed then the argument about the use of any cleaner and possible damage is moot. What's the worse that could happen, it start working again, or that it might fail again sometime in the future?

Now I admit, if the individual has the ability to take the pot apart and the substrate is not cracked, then it can be cleaned and there is no need to spray it with anything, however that might not fix the pot....

The early ones with the brass control come completely apart, and in my experience, these are the ones that the substrate is most likely cracked.

It's my observation that these cracks are caused by not having a backing nut installed and overtightening the front nut....My assumption is that these were installed wrong by the builder, and/or taken apart and installed wrong later on?

If you take an old pot out, and it's in good condition, make sure there is a backing nut installed so the center shaft is not being pulled through when tightening the outer nut...


Just some of my experiences and observations, may not be worth much....


Regards,
Andy

Regards,
Andy
 
Bought a PAS 3, worked great for about a week of heavy use, now I lose one channel about 80% gone after about an hour of play time, just slowly disappears.

Any thoughts, with work I haven't even opened it up yet, but i did have time to write this lazy email.
Check voltages as per the manual.
Your description might hint that the filament se-rectifier is dying. Replace with a pair of 1n4005
 
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