Look to be in very good shape. Going to start getting every thing together to put together some altec 19 clones. Drivers and crossovers will come from great plains audio. Will have cabs built. Or con my brother in law into doing it. Ive wanted a pair for almost 40 years. Like the idea of new drivers from gpa over ones that have been around the block a lot of times. Wish me luck.
Just got some 511-B Altec Horns.
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bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
i don't want to rain on your parade. But, the Nineteen uses the 811 horn.
Swapping a 511 for the 811 will somewhat alter the speaker's sonic signature.
It's going to change the acoustic center of the horn/driver such that it is no longer in alignment with the woofer.
It will also affect diffraction and dispersion as the relationship between the horn dimensions and the cabinet dimensions will no longer allow the use of the acoustic foam inserts that belong around the horn.
Also, the 511 does not sound the same as an 811 under any circumstances.
The end result might be considered a model Nineteen facsimile, but it will not be an actual model nineteen or faithful clone.
Swapping a 511 for the 811 will somewhat alter the speaker's sonic signature.
It's going to change the acoustic center of the horn/driver such that it is no longer in alignment with the woofer.
It will also affect diffraction and dispersion as the relationship between the horn dimensions and the cabinet dimensions will no longer allow the use of the acoustic foam inserts that belong around the horn.
Also, the 511 does not sound the same as an 811 under any circumstances.
The end result might be considered a model Nineteen facsimile, but it will not be an actual model nineteen or faithful clone.
OK then I'm going to build some 2 way speakers that have nothing to do with altec 19s. Ive been doing just enough reading to get me in trouble and have been reading some prefer the 511 but you are right I didn't state the facts man! Peace.
Good luck.
I like 511 horns, back when I was a horny I used many horns but always had a spot for the 511. But were I out to clone 19s I'd use 811s. But I'm sure you'll get excellent sound with 511s.
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elitopus
Addicted Member
Planning on getting ferrite or AlNiCo drivers?
I would build xovers instead. There are some good designs out there with built in EQ/shelving.
gdmoore28
Super Member
Hot dog! Another Altec project in the making! Be sure to keep us posted on what you do and take lots and lots of pictures. (We like to watch 
)
Are your horns green or black? You are going to be dropping a good deal of money on the new components from GPA, but you will also be going first class with all new pieces. Have you nailed down which drivers and woofers you want to use?
(Gotta' love the Wardsweb approach to integrating the 511B, as noted by Earl, above.)
As Elitopus pointed out, there are a number of crossover designs to consider if you want to build them yourself. The ones Eli is referring to have passive eq components built into them that takes the "horniness" out of the horns by significantly lowering the mid range response. (This is a not a new idea. Practically all the horn-based designers have been using the technique for many decades. JBL published some excellent tech papers on the process.) There are lots of threads on this. If your are interested in them, just let us know and we'll flood you with links.
Looking forward to more.
GeeDeeEmm
)Are your horns green or black? You are going to be dropping a good deal of money on the new components from GPA, but you will also be going first class with all new pieces. Have you nailed down which drivers and woofers you want to use?
(Gotta' love the Wardsweb approach to integrating the 511B, as noted by Earl, above.)
As Elitopus pointed out, there are a number of crossover designs to consider if you want to build them yourself. The ones Eli is referring to have passive eq components built into them that takes the "horniness" out of the horns by significantly lowering the mid range response. (This is a not a new idea. Practically all the horn-based designers have been using the technique for many decades. JBL published some excellent tech papers on the process.) There are lots of threads on this. If your are interested in them, just let us know and we'll flood you with links.
Looking forward to more.
GeeDeeEmm
gdmoore28
Super Member
Even though I ended up with 511s by default, I've been watching for a pair of 811s in green to swap out in my build. I'm suspecting that, considering the relatively small size of my 24X12 "listening" room (which happens to be where I sleep!), the 811s might be the better choice.
Despite the decidedly subjective nature of the question, how would you best describe the kind of sonic differences I should expect from utilizing 811s in place of the 511s? (802D drivers, 800Hz, 12dB crossover.)
GeeDeeEmm
Different topic but if you're buying horn drivers maybe you can find some that don't require equalization to reach the HF like the old Altecs did.
bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
I prefer the 511, for a number of reasons, even tho it probably sacrifices a bit of top end response compared to the 811. None of the differences are big, and perhaps the most noticeable difference of all is the physical size difference, 511's are on the way to being a large horn.
We'd love some suggestions. I haven't met a horn/driver combination yet that didn't need at least some degree of EQ/smoothing.
I have these Renkus-Heinz that I got with my 511's from, who was it down in TX, dc270 I think. The drivers are supposed to be flat to 20KHz according to specs. I have not tried to measure the output when attached to a 511.
I got a pair of 811b coming also. Im just starting to get things together so it may be a bit before I get started. Can always sell what I don't use. Or just keep them, Might start getting a few things in hopes of the value going up. Its unreal what some of those old drivers bring!!
twiiii
Lunatic Member
Small 1 inch Altec drivers don't like 500 Hz crossover points. So I would use a 800 HZ crossover, it enables your HF driver to handle more power and get rid of some of the honking a 511 is know for. I'd coat the out side of the horn with truck bed coating to dampen the horn similar to a 311 series horns.or Multicells. . You might consider building a 16 cu ft box that is well damped using two 416's with out a port. Placed correctly in a room the bass will extend below 20 HZ and won't have the sudden drop off of a ported unit. You'll loose a few db in sensitivty but with two woofers you'll be OK. You might want to a low pass first order filter for the bottom woofer to supplement the top woofer below 70 HZ. Remember to hang a 2" thick curtain behind the woofers to reduce standing waves. And make sure to cross brace the box, to reduce resonances.
BillWojo
Addicted Member
Looks like a AUB reunion over here. If your after the Model 19 sound, there was a lot of engineering behind that speaker including the cabinet. Also they crossed it over at 1200Hz and used probably the best crossover they ever designed. Lot's of info on that crossover and many have built there own.
Keep us posted, your gonna have some fun with this project.
BillWojo
Keep us posted, your gonna have some fun with this project.
BillWojo
Here's an 800hz HiPass ( clearly inspired by the M19 network ).
1/6 octave smoothing ;
This design ( when used with a baffle mounted BR woofer ) really calls for the delaying of that woofer's signal ( to get the smoothest possible transition at the crossover point, ).
IOW, To obtain the necessary delay, this really requires the implementation of an electronic crossover ( sporting builtin delay ) that then drives the woofer amp while using passive biamping ( on the top-end ) using the displayed filters ( granted, this is far from the typical approach ) .
PS; I posted this to give others an idea of just how linear the response of the GPA 802g can get ( while still retaining a high 97db sensitivity ).
- This is a "prediction" made within XSim software using real response curves ( traced from GPA's ad ) and then using my own impedance files ( created with one of my 802T drivers loaded up with a 34647 diaphragm, all bolted onto a 811b sized biRadial ).
1/6 octave smoothing ;
This design ( when used with a baffle mounted BR woofer ) really calls for the delaying of that woofer's signal ( to get the smoothest possible transition at the crossover point, ).
IOW, To obtain the necessary delay, this really requires the implementation of an electronic crossover ( sporting builtin delay ) that then drives the woofer amp while using passive biamping ( on the top-end ) using the displayed filters ( granted, this is far from the typical approach ) .
PS; I posted this to give others an idea of just how linear the response of the GPA 802g can get ( while still retaining a high 97db sensitivity ).
- This is a "prediction" made within XSim software using real response curves ( traced from GPA's ad ) and then using my own impedance files ( created with one of my 802T drivers loaded up with a 34647 diaphragm, all bolted onto a 811b sized biRadial ).
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Well GDM, my point wasn't well made obviously since you focused on the UHF extension .
Here's an old Zilch measurement showing the typical 802-8G ( with 23744 diaphragm I think ) fitted into an 811B ( smoothed out with the M19 hipass ) .
The so-called "roller-coaster" response led some to call for the use of the ( "flatter" & more affordable ) BMS 4550 driver ( seen below as the black line in comparison to the 802-8G in blue ).
Here's an old Zilch measurement showing the typical 802-8G ( with 23744 diaphragm I think ) fitted into an 811B ( smoothed out with the M19 hipass ) .
The so-called "roller-coaster" response led some to call for the use of the ( "flatter" & more affordable ) BMS 4550 driver ( seen below as the black line in comparison to the 802-8G in blue ).
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biscuithead
Me likes the eargasm retroplasm...
Extremely happy with my university T-50 drivers in one of my pair of 511s. I'm down to six 511s... They grow on trees around here, but I love that fruit!
mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
Youse guyses using 511Bs... you just might want to hunt down a pair of these...
DSC_6851 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
DSC_6840 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
DSC_6851 by Mark Hardy, on FlickrDSC_6840 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
elitopus
Addicted Member
^Good luck finding a pair of EH500 with the factory EE1-2 adaptors. I have a single and have been looking for a mate for over a year. They don't come up often and they sell quick when they do.
The EH800 "Bowtie" horns, are much more common and sound just as good. You are limited to a 800hz cutoff freq though.
The EH800 "Bowtie" horns, are much more common and sound just as good. You are limited to a 800hz cutoff freq though.