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Kef Reference Model 103/3 Rebuild

intelonetwo

intelonetwo

New Member
I'll make a long story short...

I'm scaling down my system so that I can focus my attention on other interests, namely Real Estate Investment. To that end I liquidated the previous system but allocated some of the funds to acquiring a new high end system at a much lower price point. For speakers I found what I thought was a good deal on a pair of Kef Reference Model 103/3 PRISTINE condition. Once I got them home the good quickly become a not so good deal. Upon hooking them up I found out one tweeter doesn't work. Upon removing the tweeter from the bottom of the cabinet which required me to remove the woofer, I found out the woofer donut is shot too. So now the good deal becomes a not quite a bad deal. I don't want to debate whether it's a god deal or not. I see it as an opportunity to refurbish a nice pair of speakers, so I set out to do just that.

So far my task list looks like this:
  1. Find replacement tweeters
  2. Re-Donut the woofers
Upon searching for tweeters I find that the T33 SP1210 4 Ohm tweeters are no longer available. I've read that Morel MDT29's are a suitable replacement however there is some contention among music lovers who want to preserve the Kef Reference Model 103/3 "originality" and those who don't. Those who don't see the Morel as an upgrade or a suitable replacement at the least. It would appear to me the only options are:
  1. Find NOS T33 1210 Tweeters
  2. Use the Morel MDT29
What do you think? Use the Morel MDT29's and call it a day or find a pair of NOS T33's? I've read the Morel tweeter needs sensitivity adjustment (*1).Your thoughts?



Bibliography:

Notes:
  • The rubber surrounds on the woofers are in excellent condition so I won't be replacing them.
  • The tweeter continuity tests come up "open loop" which means the VC is shot. Ferrofluid replacement won't revive it apparently. Need new tweeter.
 
Last edited:
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intelonetwo said:
I'll make a long story short...

I'm scaling down my system so that I can focus my attention on other interests, namely Real Estate Investment. To that end I liquidated the previous system but allocated some of the funds to acquiring a new high end system at a much lower price point. For speakers I found what I thought was a good deal on a pair of Kef Reference Model 103/3 PRISTINE condition. Once I got them home the good quickly become a not so good deal. Upon hooking them up I found out one tweeter doesn't work. Upon removing the tweeter from the bottom of the cabinet which required me to remove the woofer, I found out the woofer donut is shot too. So now the good deal becomes a not quite a bad deal. I don't want to debate whether it's a god deal or not. I see it as an opportunity to refurbish a nice pair of speakers, so I set out to do just that.

So far my task list looks like this:
  1. Find replacement tweeters
  2. Re-Donut the woofers
Upon searching for tweeters I find that the T33 SP1210 4 Ohm tweeters are no longer available. I've read that Morel MDT29's are a suitable replacement however there is some contention among music lovers who want to preserve the Kef Reference Model 103/3 "originality" and those who don't. Those who don't see the Morel as an upgrade or a suitable replacement at the least. It would appear to me the only options are:
  1. Find NOS T33 1210 Tweeters
  2. Use the Morel MDT29
What do you think? Use the Morel MDT29's and call it a day or find a pair of NOS T33's? I've read the Morel tweeter needs sensitivity adjustment (*1).Your thoughts?



Bibliography:

Notes:
  • The rubber surrounds on the woofers are in excellent condition so I won't be replacing them.
  • The tweeter tested come up with an open loop which means the VC is shot. Ferrofluid replacement won't revive it apparently. Need new tweeter.
Click to expand...

1. Swap out the tweeters with the Morel's. :thumbsup:
2. Replace rotted foam donuts. :thumbsup:
3. Enjoy your speakers. :music:
4. Ignore what the 'snobs' say, they're your speakers, not theirs. If they really cared they would send you their spare set of original T33's. o_O
 
darkblue94 said:
1. Swap out the tweeters with the Morel's. :thumbsup:
2. Replace rotted foam donuts. :thumbsup:
3. Enjoy your speakers. :music:
4. Ignore what the 'snobs' say, they're your speakers, not theirs. If they really cared they would send you their spare set of original T33's. o_O
Click to expand...
Rock! Would you use the MDT29 8 ohms versions? The 4 ohm version seems difficult to find.
 
Quote:
"Ignore what the 'snobs' say, they're your speakers, not theirs. If they really cared they would send you their spare set of original T33's."

Nothing to do with being snobish and everything to do with respect for the design and effort that went into creating the KEF Reference Series from that era.

This continuing saga is in three treads. All the issues are easy repairs. The correct tweeter is out there. The donuts are simple. The ferrofluid-not brain surgery. All the OP needs to do is the research and the leg work.
The fact they are pristine is a good starting point. Why bastardize them with replacement parts just because they are a click away?
These speakers were $1500 when new. Someone has taken good care of them. In an instant you can make them worthless. Your speakers/Your call.

BTW------got the KUBE for these?
 
DOBIEGUY said:
Quote:
"Ignore what the 'snobs' say, they're your speakers, not theirs. If they really cared they would send you their spare set of original T33's."

Nothing to do with being snobish and everything to do with respect for the design and effort that went into creating the KEF Reference Series from that era.

This continuing saga is in three treads. All the issues are easy repairs. The correct tweeter is out there. The donuts are simple. The ferrofluid-not brain surgery. All the OP needs to do is the research and the leg work.
The fact they are pristine is a good starting point. Why bastardize them with replacement parts just because they are a click away?
These speakers were $1500 when new. Someone has taken good care of them. In an instant you can make them worthless. Your speakers/Your call.

BTW------got the KUBE for these?
Click to expand...
DOBIEGUY said:
Quote:
"Ignore what the 'snobs' say, they're your speakers, not theirs. If they really cared they would send you their spare set of original T33's."

Nothing to do with being snobish and everything to do with respect for the design and effort that went into creating the KEF Reference Series from that era.

This continuing saga is in three treads. All the issues are easy repairs. The correct tweeter is out there. The donuts are simple. The ferrofluid-not brain surgery. All the OP needs to do is the research and the leg work.
The fact they are pristine is a good starting point. Why bastardize them with replacement parts just because they are a click away?
These speakers were $1500 when new. Someone has taken good care of them. In an instant you can make them worthless. Your speakers/Your call.

BTW------got the KUBE for these?
Click to expand...
It's just a speaker! I do have the correct KUBE. I've looked for the T33 SP1210's and can't find a source. If as you say their out there...Please point me to them. I'd love to buy them.

I've already stated that the VC are shot so the ferrofluid service won't help here. Also the donuts, yes are a no brainer and are on order.

Thomas
 
intelonetwo said:
It's just a speaker! I do have the correct KUBE. I've looked for the T33 SP1210's and can't find a source. If as you say their out there...Please point me to them. I'd love to buy them.

Thomas
Click to expand...
I chose to turn away from this thread after the last post rather than get in a pissing contest with no purpose. The T33's show up about as often as the proverbial 'blue moon' and even when they do they're priced over that moon. The MDT29's are brand new and $54 each. They are a valid alternative to the T33's and certainly a better than not listening to your speakers at all.
 
darkblue94 said:
I chose to turn away from this thread after the last post rather than get in a pissing contest with no purpose. The T33's show up about as often as the proverbial 'blue moon' and even when they do they're priced over that moon. The MDT29's are brand new and $54 each. They are a valid alternative to the T33's and certainly a better than not listening to your speakers at all.
Click to expand...
Hate to see you go Darkblue. Stand up. Don't allow anyone to stop from cordially participating in this thread. I'd say the same to the Dobieguy as well. I don't believe you were out to harm anyone. If he's offended, that's his challenge, you shouldn't be affected by his feelings. I value your suggestions. Thanks.
Thomas
 
intelonetwo said:
Hate to see you go Darkblue. Stand up. Don't allow anyone to stop from cordially participating in this thread. I'd say the same to the Dobieguy as well. I don't believe you were out to harm anyone. If he's offended, that's his challenge, you shouldn't be affected by his feelings. I value your suggestions. Thanks.
Thomas
Click to expand...
To be fair to Dobieguy I did use the term "snobs" when it would have been better to have said "purists." I happen to own a pair of Reference 103/4 speakers myself. They use tweeters that are also as rare as hen's teeth on the secondhand market, fortunately mine were spared from destruction and only required ferrofluid replacement. Do not be dissuaded from going with the Morel tweeters as there are many KEF enthusiasts that have been perfectly satisfied with them. :)
 
intelonetwo said:
When using that Morel MDT29 is their any crossover modification needed to make it compatible with the 103?
Click to expand...
My understanding is that no crossover mods are required, just the small mod to fit the tweeter itself to the faceplate. That's the beauty of the swap.
 
intelonetwo said:
Do tell, whats the small mod?

Thomas
Click to expand...
Thomas , I don't have any first hand experience with these exact tweeters, i"m going by information that I've encountered researching the tweeters in my 103/4's. I might suggest contacting madisound speakers works @ madisound.com as they are experts in this sort of thing. I also have learned about KEF matters on DIYAUDIO.COM. There are also some videos on YOUTUBE that show how this stuff is done. As in everything, opinions differ and the more information you can get, the better off you'll be. I don't want to risk giving you detailed information that ends up not 100% pertaining to your specific situation. I'm going to spend some more time to verify exactly what will work for you.
 
darkblue94 said:
Thomas , I don't have any first hand experience with these exact tweeters, i"m going by information that I've encountered researching the tweeters in my 103/4's. I might suggest contacting madisound speakers works @ madisound.com as they are experts in this sort of thing. I also have learned about KEF matters on DIYAUDIO.COM. There are also some videos on YOUTUBE that show how this stuff is done. As in everything, opinions differ and the more information you can get, the better off you'll be. I don't want to risk giving you detailed information that ends up not 100% pertaining to your specific situation. I'm going to spend some more time to verify exactly what will work for you.
Click to expand...
Ok. I've seen many of those YouTube videos and have a good idea of what the job entails. There aren't any 103/3 that I saw but there are enough similar donut and tweeter replacement videos that I get the gist of it.

Looking at the MDT29 on Madisound I notice it has 3 screw holes as opposed to the Kef T33 which has 4. I suppose this means that 1 of the screws wouldn't be screwed in.

Thomas
 
intelonetwo said:
Ok. I've seen many of those YouTube videos and have a good idea of what the job entails. There aren't any 103/3 that I saw but there are enough similar donut and tweeter replacement videos that I get the gist of it.

Looking at the MDT29 on Madisound I notice it has 3 screw holes as opposed to the Kef T33 which has 4. I suppose this means that 1 of the screws wouldn't be screwed in.

Thomas
Click to expand...
I think may be the modification needed as well as I think the Morel tweeter is 1.1" vs. 1.0" for the T33 so you have to file the hole slightly for it to fit. Pretty much as simple as that.
 
The Morel will work but isn't quite right. A friend of mine installed those tweeters into her 104/2s (which use the similar T33 SP1191) and there were problems with the sound afterwards. The issue I have with them is they're expensive and require modifying the front of the speaker to fit properly, plus the crossovers in these speakers are complicated with the impedance flattening feature and not just any tweeter will work, even if it is somewhat close. On the 103/3, I'm not quite sure how you would get them in there - the SP1210 fits onto a square faceplate with four screws. How would the Morel fit on there? I've never heard of anyone using this tweeter on the 103/3 but of course, I might just be ignorant to that.

SP1210 tweeters do show up from time to time. Yes, they are uncommon, but you will find them. They were used in the 102, 103/3 and 107 so KEF did manufacture several replacements. If I were in your position I would wait around to see if you can find the right T33s first, and if that fails, you could either look into having your tweeters repaired or as a last resort sourcing the Morel tweeters. But, I have concerns about how the Morel would even fit in there in the first place.
 
canuckaudiog said:
The Morel will work but isn't quite right. A friend of mine installed those tweeters into her 104/2s (which use the similar T33 SP1191) and there were problems with the sound afterwards. The issue I have with them is they're expensive and require modifying the front of the speaker to fit properly, plus the crossovers in these speakers are complicated with the impedance flattening feature and not just any tweeter will work, even if it is somewhat close. On the 103/3, I'm not quite sure how you would get them in there - the SP1210 fits onto a square faceplate with four screws. How would the Morel fit on there? I've never heard of anyone using this tweeter on the 103/3 but of course, I might just be ignorant to that.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what the challenge seems to be but the 103/3 have a 4 hole attachment to the faceplate. The Morel others are recommending have a 3 hole attachment to the faceplate which to me means it won't fit. Secondly, the way the tweeter mounts into the cabinet is more traditional in the 103/3 as opposed to the 104/2's unique tweeter mount.

canuckaudiog said:
SP1210 tweeters do show up from time to time. Yes, they are uncommon, but you will find them. They were used in the 102, 103/3 and 107 so KEF did manufacture several replacements. If I were in your position I would wait around to see if you can find the right T33s first, and if that fails, you could either look into having your tweeters repaired or as a last resort sourcing the Morel tweeters. But, I have concerns about how the Morel would even fit in there in the first place.
Click to expand...
The speaker repair guy say's he's sourced a replacement, but they ain't cheap at $125 each + S/H/I from Britain. That along with buying a Behringer DEQ24//96 or similar device to take the place of the KUBE that I sold would bring the refurbished total to over $500. Not sure I want to incur that expense. LOL.
 
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