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KENWOOD KA801 - kind request of info.

Dear Friends,

at the end it is arrived at my home.
It is in good shape. Just the on/off selector is broken.
Inside there is dust, but no signs of repairs.
The components seem original.
I like particularly the nice lay-out.
My plan is:
1) to clean the dust with a brush and compressed air
2) to connect and switch it on.
Anyway I wonder if the two big black caps 10.000uF/63V need to be replaced after 25 years.
They seem high grade however.
I will post my first listening impression soon for anyone is interested about this not very common integrated.
The first impression is very positive.

Kind regards,

beppe61
Italy
 
bolly said:
so far so good beppe61! :thmbsp:

Dear Mr. Bolly,

thank you very much for your kind reply.
I will try to take some pictures (the interiors are good looking) after the cleaning phase.
As I do not own a digital camera I will have to ask to a friend.
Anyway if the sound will be promising, next steps would be:
1) find a service manual
2) try to use just the power amp section, the most interesting on first impression.
Usually the pre section (with all that tone controls, loudness and more) is the weaker part of integrateds (maybe it is just a my prejudice).
In general from what I have gathered here and there it is quite difficult to find a very fine sounding solid state pre at reasonable price, vintage or not.
I really do not know why.
For power amps instead, from what I understand, is less difficult.
I would be very grateful if you could let me know your opinion on this subject.

Thank you very much again.

Kind regards,

beppe61
 
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well beppe61, I have experimented with some SS preamps and I keep returning to the pre section of my Kenwood KA-9150, she's the best sounding to me so far.
 
bolly said:
well beppe61,
I have experimented with some SS preamps and I keep returning to the pre section of my Kenwood KA-9150,
she's the best sounding to me so far.


Thank you very much Mr. Bolly.
Very interesting suggestion.
Kenwood KA-9150 (she ? )
Then I will add this model to the following list:
Kenwood 700C
Onkyo P303
of "most interesting vintage SS line stage" (as I listen only to Cds and use the stereo during movies watching).
I hope to expand the list above with other models in the future.

Thank you very much indeed.
Kind regards,

beppe61
 
she(KA-9150) must be a she

...because of her beautiful voice. She was Kenwoods top of the line(TOTL) integrated amplifier, a dual mono design. :yes:

She's the second piece below my turntable

newrack.jpg
 
Dear Mr. Bolly,


congratulations for your excellent system !
a very "intriguing" mix of vintage and modern.
I do not see any digital source. Are you a "vinyl" addict ?
I can understand you.
It is a quite demanding task to make digital sound natural.
But I am so lazy that I cannot do without my remote control.

Congratulations again. Very fine rig !

Kind regards,

beppe61
 
Thank you for your compliments beppe61. I'm an overall audioaddict that is just starting out, digital you say? :stupid: I'll try it one day.
 
Dear Friends,

an update on my old/new Kenwood KA-801.
From the seller I understand it has been left unused since two years!
Anyway everything seems to work adequately.
Some scratches turning left/right the balance control (it must be cleaned I think, like the not sealed volume pot. I like sealed one better anyway).
The power cord is a captive two 0.75 sqmm humble thing (I would sign for a law in favour of IEC terminations like those on Personal Computer).
I think it is too early for a judgement on sound.
However the sound is clean, hopefully with more power and body in the next days. I am optimistic.
Also the soundstage is not fully developed.If only it had a pre-main separation. I could try to assess the quality of the two sections separately.
There is a voice in my brain going on and telling me:" This has to be the last integrated, this has to be the last integrated, ...".
No, seriuosly, I think that all things considered the separates way is the best solution.
I am sure that the power section of this Kenwwod KA-801 with a better preamp in fron of it could sing better.
Not that now is unlistenable, but ... the power section is more impressive to me.
Good dual mono PS.
Few components.
Very nicely built.
As soon as I will found a schematic I will evaluate the opportunity to install new main amp inputs with two nice RCAs on the back.
With my tube preamp in front of it, it could be a nice surprise.

Thank you to all of you for your extremely kind and valuable support.
Kind regards,

beppe61
 
Beppe,

I doubt that the problem with your KA-801 lies in lack of quality of the preamp section...
In my experience, separates are not always superior just because they are separate.

I think that replacing all capacitors will solve most of the problems.

You say that the amplifier was not used for two years (at least) - this is one of the worst things that could happen to the capacitors.

They deteriorate much faster when not used.

In my study/computer room, I have a 20+ years old Sansui amp. A friend of mine has exactly the same model.

He left his amp unused for some time.
He tried to use it again, but without success - many of the capacitors leaked and developed some bulges.

My amp plays music at least six hours every day and it still works and looks as new.
Sound is OK too, maybe not as good as new - the change is gradual and I can't remember how it sounded 20 years ago :)

Some people even recommend that you should keep your gear on all the time...

I could not believe the change in sound when I replaced capacitors in my speaker's crossovers.

Before recapping, the sound was fatiguing and harsh.
Recapping totally transformed them!!!

Some people are avoiding replacing big power supply caps since they are expensive... I'm afraid that you will have to replace them too if you want that powerful sound.

Good luck!

Aleksandar
 
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Dear Aleksandar,

thank you very much indeed for your extremely kind and valuable reply.
Let me express my opinion hereunder.

>
Kuja said:
Beppe,
I doubt that the problem with your KA-801 lies in lack of quality of the preamp section ... In my experience, separates are not always superior just because they are separate.

Dear friend, I do not say that the integrateds' pre sections are bad in general, but usually they are not "straight" as they should be.
There are tone controls, loudness, balance (I prefer without balance) etc.
Sometimes they use also electrolytic coupling caps.

> I think that replacing all capacitors will solve most of the problems.

How true are your words.
I would like to tell you my own experience on the topic.
I have a 30 year old italian amp (an Aloia project if you know the man).
I replaced some days ago the two original Sprague Powerlytic 7200uF/50V with two brand new RIFA PEH 200 series 10.000uF/63V.
I could not believe to my ears. Everything has improved. And in such a remarkable way that now I rate these white Rifas very highly.
As a side note, after using them I found that the high end brand Gamut use them in their exceptional power amps.
You maybe are thinking: " Well, then put some of those Rifas in the Kenwood".
They have screw terminals while the caps in the Kenny are soldered.
Looking at the specifications I can see that the best caps on the market (and expecially those of higher capacitance) are all screw terminated.

> You say that the amplifier was not used for two years (at least) - this is one of the worst things that could happen to the capacitors.
They deteriorate much faster when not used.
In my study/computer room, I have a 20+ years old Sansui amp.
A friend of mine has exactly the same model.
He left his amp unused for some time.
He tried to use it again, but without success - many of the capacitors leaked and developed some bulges.
My amp plays music at least six hours every day and it still works and looks as new.
Sound is OK too, maybe not as good as new - the change is gradual and I can't remember how it sounded 20 years ago :)
Some people even recommend that you should keep your gear on all the time...

This is very interesting. I did not know. Thank you so much for your very valuable advice. I have to say that just playing music on the Kenny for two days has improved sound remakably.
But the bass remains soft and not defined, like that of the other amp before recapping.
But after ... what a sound.
It is an integrated (about 70W/channel on 8 ohm) as well, but with the pre-main splitting option.

> I could not believe the change in sound when I replaced capacitors in my speaker's crossovers.
Before recapping, the sound was fatiguing and harsh.

Mine was soft and without power. Not particularly harsh.
Sprague is also a very good brand for caps (Krell used them).

> Recapping totally transformed them!!!

This mirrors my own experienece as well. Very fascinating phenomena.
Since that moment I have already purchase 8 big (unfortunately too big to be used without space problem) 15.000uF/100V Siemens Sikorel about which I have read great things.
But these Rifas have impressed me very much indeed. Very good caps.
The sound has gained an impressive transparency.

> Some people are avoiding replacing big power supply caps since they are expensive... I'm afraid that you will have to replace them too if you want that powerful sound.

Reach the pleasure through the sacrifice eh, eh, eh.
If the outcome is nice that sacrifice is very acceptable.
I think that the best caps can work for a very long time (as you perfectly confirm). At least ten years of very beatiful music.

Good luck!
Aleksandar

Dear Aleksandar,
I thank you again immensely for your extremely kind, friendly and above all really valuable advice.
I have to say that I am quite new of this forum but I am getting extremely interesting advice that have transfromed my perception of tha quality of vintage amps.
That years (from 1975-1985) have seen very remarkable pieces of audio art.
I think that the best modern offers, at the end, could very well be just reissues of those extremely good topologies (at much higher prices, of course).

Thank you very much sincerely.
Kind regards,

beppe61 :banana:
 
Hey Beppe!
could you take some shoots of the beauty ?
Unveiled ones will be appreciated, too :D

Cheers!
Carlo

PS.: I just won an auction for a Yammy 1010 (to be serviced) at the very good price of 124 euros shipped from Germany.... just thinking of it because it has pre-out/ampli-in - Also still trying to get a Supreme 600 sometime.. :thmbsp:
 
MeAN said:
Hey Beppe!
could you take some shoots of the beauty ?
Unveiled ones will be appreciated, too :D
Cheers!
Carlo

Hello Carlo!
I would like to, but first I have to get a digital camera.
In the next days I will try to post something (front and inside).
How can I upload pictures?

> PS.: I just won an auction for a Yammy 1010 (to be serviced) at the very good price of 124 euros shipped from Germany.... just thinking of it because it has pre-out/ampli-in -

Do you mean from ebay.de ?
Germany seems indeed a great market also for us Italians.
Great prices and very high quality of equipments.
The pre-main splitting option is very welcome in my opinion.
If only to evaluate the respective quality of the two sections.

> Also still trying to get a Supreme 600 sometime.. :thmbsp:

I read the opinion of Mr. Echowars on this model.
He rates it very highly indeed. It should have a sweet but extremely powerful sound because of its fets based preamp and very sturdy power section.
He rates it the best among Kenwood integrated (if I am not wrong).

I will try to upload some pictures. I promise.
Kind regards,

beppe61
 
Do you mean from ebay.de ?
Germany seems indeed a great market also for us Italians.
Great prices and very high quality of equipments.

Yes indeed.
I always seek equipment on national Ebay sites, especially Germany,UK and sometimes France.
Sellers usually state that they are willing to ship just in their own country but, when directly contacted, most of the times I succeded in convincing them to ship internationally.
I have a great regret for a 600 that passed on Ebay.de at 107 euro.
The unit was defective and missing one of the 4 huge caps, but still a bargain IMHO.. unluckely I just bet 106 and I was off.. :no:

Ciao,
Carlo
 
MeAN said:
Yes indeed.
I always seek equipment on national Ebay sites, especially Germany,UK and sometimes France.
Sellers usually state that they are willing to ship just in their own country but, when directly contacted, most of the times I succeded in convincing them to ship internationally.
I have a great regret for a 600 that passed on Ebay.de at 107 euro.
The unit was defective and missing one of the 4 huge caps, but still a bargain IMHO.. unluckely I just bet 106 and I was off.. :no:
Ciao,
Carlo

Ciao Carlo,
thank you very much for the kind suggestion.
I have to say that I am starting thinking about the smaller models (50-70W/channel) with a single output pair.
Reading a very interesting (as usual) post of Mr. Echowars about the Accuphase P-300 he found that even this amp (a TOTL model) did not come with the output pairs matched !
With just a single output pair you have nothing to match (eh, eh, eh).
And I could always upgrade the capacitance (to 2 let's say 20.000uF caps) with a nice outcome.
My listening room is quite limited in size (4,5x6 meters).
A good powerful 50 Watter could be more than enough indeed.
I think that there is something of good in having just one output pair.

Thank you again for your kind and valuable advice.
Kind regards,

beppe61
 
Beppe,

I attached a block diagram of my 907.

It has this DC-coupled switch.

It bypasses all tone controls and filters together and most important, the "evil" coupling capacitor is also bypassed by this.

Only volume, balance and loudness switch remain active when it is activated. Loudness control is a simple switch, so it wont change the signal when in off position.

I think that your 801 also has this Direct Couple feature.

About noisy controls... well this is one of the reason why second hand KA907 is sold between 400 and 600 EUR compared to 150EUR you have paid for your 801

KA907 uses ALPS pots that are sealed and use some super conductive plastic material that provides resistance. This material prectically can not get worn out. All controls on my 907: volume, balance and tone are completely silent, as if the amplifier left the factory yesterday :)

But this should not be a big problem - just clean them!

On the other hand, you have more modern amps like Cyrus Straight Line or Cyrus One and Two, that are basically volume control attached to a power amp.

You could try Cyrus Two together with its PSX separate power supply.

I have Cyrus One and Cyrus III with PSX-R. They both are great amps but they are not powerful enough for my big ARs which are 250W@4ohm

Take care,

Aleksandar
 

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Kuja said:
Beppe,
I attached a block diagram of my 907.
It has this DC-coupled switch.
It bypasses all tone controls and filters together and most important, the "evil" coupling capacitor is also bypassed by this.

Dear Aleksandar,
thank you so much for the very interesting reply.
Anyway let me clearify that I am not against coupling caps on principle.
Only elko caps in series with the signal.
A lot of people listen to tube preamps (all cap-coupled) with great pleasure.
I do not know about Black Gate though.

> Only volume, balance and loudness switch remain active when it is activated. Loudness control is a simple switch, so it wont change the signal when in off position.

Very purist implementation indeed. Really nice.

> I think that your 801 also has this Direct Couple feature.

Yes, it has it. I am afraid that some offset could reach the speakers.
I always leave it on off position.

> About noisy controls... well this is one of the reason why second hand KA907 is sold between 400 and 600 EUR compared to 150EUR you have paid for your 801.

Actually the main culprit is a scratchy balance control.
If only I was more competent I would by-pass it immediately.
I think it is the main reason of a slight channel unbalance. I hate this thing.

> KA907 uses ALPS pots that are sealed and use some super conductive plastic material that provides resistance. This material prectically can not get worn out. All controls on my 907: volume, balance and tone are completely silent, as if the amplifier left the factory yesterday :)

The KA907 must be a really great integrated indeed.
The volume pot on the KA801 is not sealed. Not that is a bad pot, but it is not a blue velvelt or a black beauty.

> But this should not be a big problem - just clean them!

I will try. But I am a little scared to damage them.

> On the other hand, you have more modern amps like Cyrus Straight Line or Cyrus One and Two, that are basically volume control attached to a power amp.
You could try Cyrus Two together with its PSX separate power supply.
I have Cyrus One and Cyrus III with PSX-R.
They both are great amps but they are not powerful enough for my big ARs which are 250W@4ohm

Some years ago I had the Cyrus One.
It sounded nice, but I sold it. Do not know why precisely.
I would have loved that the KA801 had the pre-main splitting option like your KA907 anyway.
I like its power section quite a lot (a visual judgement anyway).
Very nicely laid out.

Take care,
Aleksandar

Thank you very much for your kind and very useful advice.
I will try to clean that horrid balance pot.

Kind regards,

beppe61
 
Kuja said:
Beppe,
I attached a block diagram of my 907.
....
Take care,
Aleksandar

Dear Aleksandar,

you just do not know how much I would like to have a look at the schematic of that "flat amp" block.
Do you think it is possible?
On the basis of your positive words it could be the basic block of an extremely fine sounding line preamp (one of my usual nightmares).
If you like you can e-mail me.

Your sincerely,

beppe61
 
beppe61 said:
Dear Aleksandar,

you just do not know how much I would like to have a look at the schematic of that "flat amp" block.
Do you think it is possible?
On the basis of your positive words it could be the basic block of an extremely fine sounding line preamp (one of my usual nightmares).
If you like you can e-mail me.

Your sincerely,

beppe61

Dear Beppe,

This block diagram is scanned from the 907's user manual.

I also have the service manual with all the schematics, but right now, it is being used by this friend of mine who is performing the restoration job...

I don't know when it will be in my possession again.

He doesn't have a scanner...

Are you in a hurry to have it?
I can scan it for you when I get it back.
Maybe some other AK members have this service manual readily available?

Aleksandar
 
Kuja said:
Dear Beppe,

Dear Aleksandar,
your extremely kind and valuable reply offers me the opportunity to explain my humble point of view.
I listen only to digital so for me a preamp is a line preamp only.
I am so lazy that I accept to give up to the so called "real fidelity" i.e. vinyl LP.
That said in my little experience is easier to find a nice power amp than a line preamp.
And a line preamp is nothing but a very good pot followed by buffer amp, flat amp as anyone want to call them (no or very little voltage gain and some current gain to drive adequately the following power stage).
In this block (flat amp) is very easy to loose dynamics, soundstage ad detail.
I have to confess you that I am extremely curious about the schematics of this little but very fundamental block.
When I see all the wiring and components needed for tone controls, balance, loudness and so on I do not know if laughing or crying.
A really good flat amp topology and a really good pot would be an extremely good line preamp. Ok and the PS to power it, but it is easily feasible in my opinion.

> This block diagram is scanned from the 907's user manual.

I asked only because you mention the exceptional sound quality of the entire 907, so the flat amp circuit should be really fine indeed.

> I also have the service manual with all the schematics, but right now, it is being used by this friend of mine who is performing the restoration job...
I don't know when it will be in my possession again.
He doesn't have a scanner... Are you in a hurry to have it?
I can scan it for you when I get it back.
Maybe some other AK members have this service manual readily available?
Aleksandar

" We have all the time in the world "
It is not a short time project anyway.
I do not remember if the 907 has the pre-main splitting option.
If so have you tried just the pre section playing CDs?
I think that Kenwood is author of very nice solid state line stages (like that of the mythical 700C preamp that I already have. A masterpiece).

Thank you sincerely for your kind support.
Kind regards,

beppe61
 
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