Kestral Cross overs

[gfxmla]

Hey there AKers,
I've got a set of Kestral by Meadowlark speakers (MK1) that sound muddy. Should be easy enough to remedy, I think, take the bottom panel off the speakers, check out the cap value and replace, no? Well, I got the panel off, but the caps are not marked with brand, capacitance value or max voltage.

Question I have to the forum is, does anyone have a schematic for these or at least cap value for them? Searching interwebs for this info has not been fruitful.

Photos of XCover are thumbnailed below as well as full images in the links:


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2yU4KFcmPIQai1ud054aGZDcTA/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2yU4KFcmPIQMGRZZFJOdUxiX00/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2yU4KFcmPIQYUUyck9TV21CR1E/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2yU4KFcmPIQa29zYkt4RmJjZWs/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2yU4KFcmPIQWk9uYmk5VUhxanM/view?usp=sharing

Thanks in advance.

 

[Zonker92]

Well, here's one possible lead:

http://s977.photobucket.com/user/markaballah/media/KestrelCrossover.jpg.html

And another:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=103006.0

So maybe one 5.6 uF (the film) and one 31 uF (the 'lytic)? Max voltage will be fine with any current audio cap choice.

 

[PR Audio]

Medowlark hasn't been in business for awhile, but their great speakers were popular among the budget conscious crowd. The Krestel MK1 had a simple first order crossover, that was crossed rather high at 4,700 Hz. Freq. range was 38 Hz to 20K Hz @ 89 dB. With a rating of +/- 2 dB throughout the freq. range, was rather flat, which made them very easy to hear. Here is the general spec for the crossover:

Crossover: First order electrical at 4.7KHz. The tweeter capacitor is a high grade polypropylene type. Inductors are heavy gauge hard drawn copper air cores. All connections are soldered. Entire assembly is mounted outboard in an acoustically isolated enclosure at the bottom of the cabinet.

I'm no expert on crossovers, and I know I'm missing something, maybe an attenuation or zobel filter, because of the resistors. I'm sure someone else can pinpoint it and properly advise the values needed. As to upgrade, as they are probably low value caps, use MKP for both.

 

[frperdurabo]

It's been years since I've heard this, but remember them as the exact opposite of "muddy" - if anything they were too bright. Are you sure the woofers are original? These are transmission line cabinets ... is the stuffing OK? Maybe someone messed with it in an attempt to "fix" the speaker.

 

[PR Audio]

It's been years since I've heard this, but remember them as the exact opposite of "muddy" - if anything they were too bright. Are you sure the woofers are original? These are transmission line cabinets ... is the stuffing OK? Maybe someone messed with it in an attempt to "fix" the speaker.

A couple years ago I heard a pair of the Hot Rod, and I have to agree, though those I don't remember them as bright, IMO very clear and neutral. OP can disconnect the woofer at it's driver terminals and play the tweeter to see how it sounds. Then, disconnect the tweeters and do the same. If by themselves nothing unusual is heard, then the issue is not the caps nor the drivers, reconnect and you will have to look for something else, like advised by frperdurabo. If you hear something wrong on one of the drivers, you have isolated from what driver is the problem coming from. Then, start by changing the caps, as to see if that solves the problem. If not, your problem is the driver. On YouTube University you will find loads of videos on how to test drivers using a multimeter, and other methods. As for capacitance, you will need a capacitance meter, which you can find from inexpensive to top of the line on EBay, Parts Express, MCM, etc.

 

[2526]

I love my KHRs; they especially play well with tubes, but pretty much everything I've paired them with has been fine, from Rogue Cronus to Fisher 400 to Bryston 3bst to Marantz 2230.

 

[gfxmla]

A couple years ago I heard a pair of the Hot Rod, and I have to agree, though those I don't remember them as bright, IMO very clear and neutral. OP can disconnect the woofer at it's driver terminals and play the tweeter to see how it sounds. Then, disconnect the tweeters and do the same. If by themselves nothing unusual is heard, then the issue is not the caps nor the drivers, reconnect and you will have to look for something else, like advised by frperdurabo. If you hear something wrong on one of the drivers, you have isolated from what driver is the problem coming from. Then, start by changing the caps, as to see if that solves the problem. If not, your problem is the driver. On YouTube University you will find loads of videos on how to test drivers using a multimeter, and other methods. As for capacitance, you will need a capacitance meter, which you can find from inexpensive to top of the line on EBay, Parts Express, MCM, etc.

I will have to try this. They initially sounded fine with one amp, but with my current amp they are exhibiting that muddy sound. They haven't been played in while hence my thinking that something may be up with the caps. I'll try them with another set up and see what they sound like; in any case having that schematic and the cap values is very helpful, if not for this issue now, then maybe down the road. I agree that they are very neutral sounding, and the sound stage with tubes is crazy good.

@frperdurabo: I'm the second owner of these, and the buddy that I got them from did not swap out anything on them, so they are all original components.

@Zonker92 - Thanks for that data!

 

[PR Audio]

Well, here's one possible lead:

http://s977.photobucket.com/user/markaballah/media/KestrelCrossover.jpg.html

And another:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=103006.0

So maybe one 5.6 uF (the film) and one 31 uF (the 'lytic)? Max voltage will be fine with any current audio cap choice.

Totally missed Zonker's post...Ups!

 

[JimPA]

I wonder what inductor value is in use with the woofer?

Not having the crossover parts value marked is not really that uncommon.
Some in the industry are concerned that their products could be cloned.

 

[toxcrusadr]

A two-way speaker with 3 inductors? I would like to see a schematic of this.

In any case, those caps do not look that old (not sure how old these speakers are) or low quality. I would not expect them to be failing. But, it doesn't cost all that much to replace them.

It sounds like they sounded good with one amp and not with another. I second the idea of trying a different one and see if it helps. Maybe they are not a good match for your current amp.

Can you elaborate on 'muddy'? Boomy bass? Dull treble? Muffled mids?

I assume you've checked all your wiring and don't have one wired out of phase or something.

 

[gfxmla]

A two-way speaker with 3 inductors? I would like to see a schematic of this.

In any case, those caps do not look that old (not sure how old these speakers are) or low quality. I would not expect them to be failing. But, it doesn't cost all that much to replace them.

It sounds like they sounded good with one amp and not with another. I second the idea of trying a different one and see if it helps. Maybe they are not a good match for your current amp.

Can you elaborate on 'muddy'? Boomy bass? Dull treble? Muffled mids?

I assume you've checked all your wiring and don't have one wired out of phase or something.

I would say dull treble describes it best. It turns out it was a mismatch with the amp. I hooked them up into another system and they sound just fine.

Pretty crazy that they would sound so much more different with this 6BQ5 amp, but it is a lower output then what I have with my 6V6. I'll probably use them in one of my other set ups, either the 6V6 (after its refreshed) or my solid state rig.

Thanks everybody for offering advice and suggestions. This place rules.