• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

KLH Model 5 Questions

Crang

Crang

Well-Known Member
Having redone a pair of 17s a couple years back, been on the hunt for some 23s. Went to look at a set that had already been worked over and the guy wanted waaaay too much. Tell you what-when he moved them from a Sansui SS over to a cheap Chi-fi 13W tube amp my jaw hit the floor and been lusting after a set ever since (along with a tube amp to drive them in my 2nd system).

Anyway- some Model 5s popped up near me- going to look this afternoon. Price is sub $100-will need the full recap, redope, wood refinish, grills, etc. Before I put all the cash and work into them- how are these vs the 23s driven by tubes? Ive read plenty on here some like the 5s better and other the 23s better but they never say what they are driving them with and that tube sound I heard has become the goal.

Also- the serial numbers are 26,000 range and 36,000 range and the covers on the tweeters look different. Are the tweeters underneath different? I heard the circuit boards themselves in the crossovers changed and will be made of different materials and may have different inductors. Restored identically should the 2 speakers sound the same?
 
Register to hide this ad
The 23s are great speakers; the 5s are greater speakers. I have owned 2 pairs of 23s and 1 pair of Model 5. I do not have a tube amp to drive these with. But the sound out my sony DA90000ES is unequaled with model 5s. Now these are quite old, and will require maintenance (as you describe). If you wait much longer someone else is going to grab the model 5s (at less than 100). Its your move.
 
rmeade said:
The 23s are great speakers; the 5s are greater speakers. I have owned 2 pairs of 23s and 1 pair of Model 5. I do not have a tube amp to drive these with. But the sound out my sony DA90000ES is unequaled with model 5s. Now these are quite old, and will require maintenance (as you describe). If you wait much longer someone else is going to grab the model 5s (at less than 100). Its your move.
Click to expand...

Thanks- yeah I'll jump on them. I think the only reason someone hasnt is that the grills are shredded. There are a few guys in the area I usually fight for (and lose) trying to get the 23s when they pop up.
 
At under 100 I'd be all over them. Twenty Threes are wonderful, Fives are a notch up from there. Different sound IMO, being three-way, but full, crisp, and accurate. They do it all. I have a pair that I redoped, recapped, and refinished, they look and perform as new.
 
Crang said:
Thanks- yeah I'll jump on them. I think the only reason someone hasnt is that the grills are shredded. There are a few guys in the area I usually fight for (and lose) trying to get the 23s when they pop up.
Click to expand...
Go get em! These are serious speakers, designed to compete with the AR3a.
 
I'm listening to my 5's as I write this. Never heard the 5's on tubes but they've sounded great even on lower wattage SS. They stand to attention though when extra watts are poured into them. Keep us updated!
 
gbroot said:
I'm listening to my 5's as I write this. Never heard the 5's on tubes but they've sounded great even on lower wattage SS. They stand to attention though when extra watts are poured into them. Keep us updated!
Click to expand...

Thats good to hear as they are for my 2nd setup which is currently powered by an HK430 at only 25WPC until I can get a small tube amp in there. I fall alseep to that one so it definitely doesnt need to shake the house! I find despite its power that 430 makes a lot of speakers sound good that just havent with other receivers....
 
I grew up with model 5's in my family home. Never had them on a tube amp (we had an AR amp and turntable). My feeling is they are more power hungry than the 23's. They have a pretty extensive crossover, and I think that makes them quite a bit different from the 23's.
 
Crang said:
Thats good to hear as they are for my 2nd setup which is currently powered by an HK430 at only 25WPC until I can get a small tube amp in there. I fall alseep to that one so it definitely doesnt need to shake the house! I find despite its power that 430 makes a lot of speakers sound good that just havent with other receivers....
Click to expand...

I've run my 5's on an HK 330B which is rated at 20 wpc and they sounded great. Just not enough power to drive them real loud. IMO those older HK's and other older SS receivers that are cap coupled have nearly a tube like sound. Could be they'll sound great with the 430.
 
I've got a set of fives in the queue and a Fisher KX-100 tube amp to try them with. I'm starting to think I should move the fives up in the queue so I can give the combination a try.
 
My current KLH 6s and my old 17s sounded ok and fine with lower wattage units.....but exponentially better with more power. The same for my KLH 5 copy speakers, the Optimus 5s. Those acoustic suspension designs simply have lower sensitivity than bass reflex or something like KlipschHorns etc. It truly is eye opening the difference from running them with 30 watts and 75+ wpc.
 
I had some recapped Fives for a while that I used with my 500c, and they sounded awesome, but I think they benefit from more watts so I got rid of them. On the other hand, my Seventeens are more efficient and I still use them today. But Fives for under $100? Heck yea.
 
Went to go check them out. Wasnt able to hide my disappointment- one of the grill frames was snapped in half (already knew the grill was in tatters) and all the badges missing. But the real bummer was a bunch of the veneers are chipped deep at corners and even a bit split on the worst corner. Fortunately its all back and bottom corners but its pretty much all of them. Not really visible when they are setup head on but certainly from the top. They arent ever going to be 100%. I almost walked away and then offered $50 instead......so Im sitting here spinning Ella and Duke at the Cote D'Azur on them :beatnik:.

One of the tweeters is out but figure that will come back with a recap. Kind of at a loss the best way to go about the veneers. I may just fill the spots in with wood putty mixed with sawdust from when I strip the rest of the veneer down and then stain the whole thing. I usually dont like stain on speakers but may make an exception.I have no intention of reveneering them as the front contours are more than I want to take on.

They guy I got them from is moving and had a few others he wants me to make offers on before he goes. A decent set of Rectilinear Mini IIIs (the first I had ever seen) and some minty AR 2AX's he says the pots need cleaning on and doesnt know how. Had no idea what either are worth but may figure it out tonight! Oh its a sickness....
 
Crang said:
Went to go check them out. Wasnt able to hide my disappointment- one of the grill frames was snapped in half (already knew the grill was in tatters) and all the badges missing. But the real bummer was a bunch of the veneers are chipped deep at corners and even a bit split on the worst corner. Fortunately its all back and bottom corners but its pretty much all of them. Not really visible when they are setup head on but certainly from the top. They arent ever going to be 100%. I almost walked away and then offered $50 instead......so Im sitting here spinning Ella and Duke at the Cote D'Azur on them :beatnik:.

One of the tweeters is out but figure that will come back with a recap. Kind of at a loss the best way to go about the veneers. I may just fill the spots in with wood putty mixed with sawdust from when I strip the rest of the veneer down and then stain the whole thing. I usually dont like stain on speakers but may make an exception.I have no intention of reveneering them as the front contours are more than I want to take on.

They guy I got them from is moving and had a few others he wants me to make offers on before he goes. A decent set of Rectilinear Mini IIIs (the first I had ever seen) and some minty AR 2AX's he says the pots need cleaning on and doesnt know how. Had no idea what either are worth but may figure it out tonight! Oh its a sickness....
Click to expand...
Glad you grabbed the Fives, and the Rectilinears and ARs are very good speakers as well.
Regarding the veneer in the Fives, crunched corners are very repairable with splicing in veneer, (vintage veneer from old speaker cabs is best for matching wood patina) not with putty, which never looks good in my opinion. I've done it many times, and when finished, the repairs are very hard to detect.
KLH cabs are very nice and worth restoring properly.
The broken grill can be repaired with epoxy, and both being given fresh grill fabric of your choice, which was needed anyway, or watch for originals on fleabay, which show up once in a while.
Post pics when you get a chance so we can see what kind of repairs are required.
Cheers, Glenn
 
Glenn-thanks. I havent counted but guessing its a dozen spots. Will certainly need some filler underneath the veneers as well even if I do splice in new ones. Some spots are pretty deep and some have a good gap from pulling apart. Will get some pics in the next couple days. You usually buy veneer sheets or strip off donor speakers?
 
Crang said:
Glenn-thanks. I havent counted but guessing its a dozen spots. Will certainly need some filler underneath the veneers as well even if I do splice in new ones. Some spots are pretty deep and some have a good gap from pulling apart. Will get some pics in the next couple days. You usually buy veneer sheets or strip off donor speakers?
Click to expand...
Veneer from donor speakers is best for matching. Also sometimes a piece of trashed furniture with Walnut veneer is a source. I’ve occasionally used new veneer, but the grain doesn’t match nor the color. This where a lot of stain mixing is needed to try to get a color match best as possible. If I have to do this, it’s always on the bottoms.
 
I have both 5's and 23's. The 5's have lots more midrange, that will be the main difference. Some state the 5's have too much midrange. So it depends on your amp and the acoustics of the room.
I had late 5's, dated 1972, which I sold fully restored. The guy who bought them compared them to his AR3a's. He stated the 5's are VERY close sounding to the AR's and for the money the 5's are fantastic bargain. Now I have 5's dated from 1969.
The early 5's have black painted tweeter grills and the later 5's had silver grills. The early 5's have a metal plate that the binding posts and controls mount to. They also have point to point crossover circuitry using terminal/solder strips. The later 5's use a plastic plate for the binding posts and controls. The later 5's with the plastic plate use a circuit board for the crossover.
The early 5's woofer magnets are round. The later 5's have square magnets.
 
Crang said:
Glenn-thanks. I havent counted but guessing its a dozen spots. Will certainly need some filler underneath the veneers as well even if I do splice in new ones. Some spots are pretty deep and some have a good gap from pulling apart. Will get some pics in the next couple days. You usually buy veneer sheets or strip off donor speakers?
Click to expand...
Just to add to what Glenn said, there are a bunch of videos on Youtube that will be of great help on teaching you how to splice veneer. Before you add any veneer though, stabilize the crumbling MDF with some wood glue (Titebond works well), then build up with layers of plastic wood or use epoxy dough which ever you are more comfortable with. Use a razor blade to shave/sculpt filler so it is flush with the existing MDF. Be meticulous with your work and make sure to match veneer carefully. Use some paint thinner to wet the surface of the veneer to see the color and grain (like a preview of what it looks like with finish applied) to make sure you have a good match. If you are using new veneer, you may have to add a little color to match. Be careful not to over do. Add thinner to the stain and apply thin coats until you get it just dark enough. If you do a good job, you will have to be inches from the patch to see it when it's all finished.
 
I have grills with cloth, and knocked-down cabinets from a pair of 5s that the buyer only wanted the baffles, drivers and crossovers. The corners were poor on these and required a good amount of work. Contact me if interested.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom