Klipschorn crossover/upgrade identification help

[TRF75]

Hello all. New here and looking for some info. I purchased a pair of 70s klipschorns that appear to have some modifications to the crossovers and the horn “upgraded” to wood. Can any help identify origin of these upgraded parts and thoughts of if the upgrades would have a positive impact on sound.

Type LB-WO
Serial 11R800
Thank you

 

[Deang]

That’s a Dave Harris Trachorn. There were two, one for the Klipschorn and one for the LaScala. When he started doing the Ellipitrac, he stopped making the Klipschorn version. Many used the version for the La Scala in their Klipschorns. Fc is roughly 375Hz.

The network is an attempt at the ALK Universal.

 

[TRF75]

Thank you

That’s a Dave Harris Trachorn. There were two, one for the Klipschorn and one for the LaScala. When he started doing the Ellipitrac, he stopped making the Klipschorn version. Many used the version for the La Scala in their Klipschorns. Fc is roughly 375Hz.

The network is an attempt at the ALK Universa

 

[TRF75]

Thank you for this info. Any personal experience or thoughts on the wooden horn? I may upgrade the crossover anyway so not too concerned about the current crossover network.

 

[geoff.27]

A couple pictures for reference, if you haven’t found them yet…

Regarding the “wooden horn”, Volti Audio uses a newer 2” throat version of that same design in his multi-thousand dollar speakers. It’s good!

I have a pair similar to yours, the smaller throat Khorn version, I THINK yours is the La Scala version Dean mentioned, and I found it to sound “fuller” and lower than the K-400. It also seems to sound a little quieter than the K-400, all things being equal.

The crossovers you have literally look like someone removed a few choice components from an ALK board and substituted them with less expensive but suitable replacements. You can see the pre-drilled holes for the non-existent air core woofer inductor on the boards.

Looks like they also swiped the 3619 autotransformer and replaced it with a Crites 3654. Once again, I THINK that one is set at 6dB attenuation on the mids. Tap 3 SHOULD give you 3dB. Anyone reading this with the chart please post it, I couldn’t find one in a quick search and my previous iPad died last year taking those pictures with it.

I would expect those to sound pretty good as is. You may find the 3dB setting more revealing at lower volumes.

I have a couple pairs of ALK clones in rotation and ALWAYS wind up migrating to the 3dB setting.

But as they say on this forum, YMMV, your mileage may vary. It’s all very personal and tastes change.

Welcome to an awesome world of sound.

 

[TRF75]

A couple pictures for reference, if you haven’t found them yet…

Regarding the “wooden horn”, Volti Audio uses a newer 2” throat version of that same design in his multi-thousand dollar speakers. It’s good!

I have a pair similar to yours, the smaller throat Khorn version, I THINK yours is the La Scala version Dean mentioned, and I found it to sound “fuller” and lower than the K-400. It also seems to sound a little quieter than the K-400, all things being equal.

The crossovers you have literally look like someone removed a few choice components from an ALK board and substituted them with less expensive but suitable replacements. You can see the pre-drilled holes for the non-existent air core woofer inductor on the boards.

Looks like they also swiped the 3619 autotransformer and replaced it with a Crites 3654. Once again, I THINK that one is set at 6dB attenuation on the mids. Tap 3 SHOULD give you 3dB. Anyone reading this with the chart please post it, I couldn’t find one in a quick search and my previous iPad died last year taking those pictures with it.

I would expect those to sound pretty good as is. You may find the 3dB setting more revealing at lower volumes.

I have a couple pairs of ALK clones in rotation and ALWAYS wind up migrating to the 3dB setting.

But as they say on this forum, YMMV, your mileage may vary. It’s all very personal and tastes change.

Welcome to an awesome world of sound.

 

[TRF75]

Awesome info. I think you are right about the low end being less revealing and it’s compared to other Klipschorn stock speakers I’ve owned. When you say tap 3, I am guessing that is adjusting the connection at the crossover? Sorry for the ignorance, learning in flight over here. I’d like to try your suggestion with the 3db setting just want to make sure I don’t get my wires crossed. No pun intended.

 

[geoff.27]

I THINK if you move the female quick connector the blue arrow points at to tap 3 you will hear more midrange.

TAKE YOUR TIME, wiggle it a bit as you remove it so you don’t break anything… ask me how I know

 

[TRF75]

I THINK if you move the female quick connector the blue arrow points at to tap 3 you will hear more midrange.

TAKE YOUR TIME, wiggle it a bit as you remove it so you don’t break anything… ask me how I know

Here is a closeup. So move it to 3 on the opposite side? FYI that wire in 4 that would be moved to three goes to a connection labeled squawker.

 

[geoff.27]

Correct,

BUT, I THINK, looking closer at your picture, the positive and negative leads to your squawker are supposed to be reversed for that crossover design.

…it makes a difference on the graphs, lol

There is a dip in the frequency response at the crossover point from the woofer if they are out of phase.

 

[Deang]

The way that is built it will only provide 3dB steps in attenuation.

Tap 4, -3dB
Tap 3, -6dB
Tap 2, -9dB
Tap 1, -12dB

As for the horn, I thought the sound was dry and recessed. According to Dave Harris, that horn has 2dB less gain than the K-400. Since most run the ALK at -6dB, combined with gain loss, means they’re running their Klipschorns attenuated like a Cornwall. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I eventually removed the horns and sold them. The K-400 had a much more dynamic presentation at normal volume levels.

I would leave them on Tap 4 and evaluate for yourself whether you like them or not.

 

[TRF75]

The way that is built it will only provide 3dB steps in attenuation.

Tap 4, -3dB
Tap 3, -6dB
Tap 2, -9dB
Tap 1, -12dB

As for the horn, I thought the sound was dry and recessed. According to Dave Harris, that horn has 2dB less gain than the K-400. Since most run the ALK at -6dB, combined with gain loss, means they’re running their Klipschorns attenuated like a Cornwall. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I eventually removed the horns and sold them. The K-400 had a much more dynamic presentation at normal volume levels.

I would leave them on Tap 4 and evaluate for yourself whether you like them or not.

Thank you. So in theory, could I go to tap 2 to compensate for the 2db less gain on the wood horns and bring it closer to spec you said most run?

 

[winglet]

Thank you. So in theory, could I go to tap 2 to compensate for the 2db less gain on the wood horns and bring it closer to spec you said most run?

No. Tap 2 will attenuate the mid an additional -3db.

Tap 4 will attenuate the mid 3db less to make up for the horn losses compared to the k400

 

[Deang]

What Winglet said.

 

[TRF75]

Gotcha. Th

No. Tap 2 will attenuate the mid an additional -3db.

Tap 4 will attenuate the mid 3db less to make up for the horn losses compared to the k400

Gotcha. Thank you. I kept it at 4 and compared it to a 1988 khorn with a AA network and I can’t really notice a huge difference. If anything the horns sound crisper and sharper on the one with the wooden horn with the unknown/modified network. That’s my completely amateur opinion.

 

[Deang]

Largely subjective. Different rooms, different ears, differences in recorded material - and of course general taste.

The ALK sound is appreciated by many. It’s more detailed and open. The tweeter is slightly brighter because of the filter type used (Butterworth). New models attenuate it, I leave as is when I build them. The tradeoff is the sound doesn’t coalesce quite as well, and you lose some of that feel of a live performance. A friend used to say “there is no free lunch.”

BTW, your 88’s are running the wrong network. Aren’t you glad I told you that, lol. How old are the AA’s that you’re using?

 

[TRF75]

Largely subjective. Different rooms, different ears, differences in recorded material - and of course general taste.

The ALK sound is appreciated by many. It’s more detailed and open. The tweeter is slightly brighter because of the filter type used (Butterworth). New models attenuate it, I leave as is when I build them. The tradeoff is the sound doesn’t coalesce quite as well, and you lose some of that feel of a live performance. A friend used to say “there is no free lunch.”

BTW, your 88’s are running the wrong network. Aren’t you glad I told you that, lol. How old are the AA’s that you’re using?

I am not sure of the age. They look original klipsch and not a clone. I recently bought the 88s but didn’t like the oiled oak so “sold” them and bought a walnut pair that I have described in the original post. The gentlemen I sold the 88s could only fit one in his small suv. It’s been over a week and I haven’t heard back from him on getting the second horn so I am using it as a center channel in a home theater with my other khorns. Shaking the house down, I haven't seen the dog since …..

 

[winglet]

Do the ‘88 have the original k55m mid and k77m tweeter?

AK-3 would have been the original network. AA was not designed around those drivers

 

[TRF75]

Yes they in fact do have the k55m and k77m tweeter.