Knob Swap - MX113 & MC2505.

[62caddy]

I think it makes a big improvement in the appearance of the units - plus coordinates the lower units with the MPI4 on top.

So much better than the dinky little aluminum knobs giving a more "substantial" look - especially the MC2505. I also noticed the larger knob size provides better leverage while their longer length make it easier to change settings without smudging the glass which often happened due to the shallow length of the originals.I like the way they reflect the green lettering too.

Just better all the way around.

Sorry for the blurry picture quality. Very difficult to get a good focus at close distances with the Sony camera I have.

 

[c_dk]

Do you also have a set of Cragers or wire wheels on your '62 , how about those wide white walls you would break the top tire bead and slip under, then inflate. How about one of those bat wing TV antennas mounted to the trunk or a Continental kit......a MC2505 or Mx113 just do not look right compared to them with the original solid metal knobs.

 

[VintageMac]

To each his own! I think it looks great!!

Larry

 

[Gearjunky]

I think it looks f’n gr8!!

Kind of the same lines as a Resto-Mod for cars. When done gracefully, can be very pleasing to look at.

Where did you get the knobs? My 2105 is mated with a c27. I’m interested

 

[62caddy]

Do you also have a set of Cragers or wire wheels on your '62 , how about those wide white walls you would break the top tire bead and slip under, then inflate. How about one of those bat wing TV antennas mounted to the trunk or a Continental kit......a MC2505 or Mx113 just do not look right compared to them with the original solid metal knobs.

It's called the use of the the Eric Override, which is used very sparingly & judiciously.

No, would never do that to the '62 but I did have 2 1/4" WW tires installed despite 1" being correct that year.

1961 left the factory with 2 1/4" WW and since 61/62 Cadillac is the same styling gen, I could "get away" with 2 1/4". Just couldn't stomach the 1" WW. Different story in 1963 when the car was restyled. Then I would strictly use 1" WW.

In any case both tires and knob changes are easily reversible.

To each his own! I think it looks great!!

Larry

Thanks Larry. I'll probably get those straight endcaps to make the match complete, while providing the incidental pleasure of further tormenting Chris in the bargain. (Sorry Chris, I just couldn't resist! )

I think it looks f’n gr8!!

When done gracefully, can be very pleasing to look at.

Where did you get the knobs? My 2105 is mated with a c27. I’m interested

Thanks for the kind words and yes, that was the intention.

Found the knobs on the auction site after years of looking. Extremely hard to find are the MC2205/2200/2255/2250 knobs. But when 6 NOS came up in one fell swoop, I figured I better pounce. Probably overpaid but I knew they'd be gone fast.

Other knobs for the L/R channel bass/treble centers & loudness switch they had at A/C, plus the MR80 tuning knob.

I wish you luck - it will probably take some time to get all 5 you need. I have one extra but the plastic insert that secures the knob to the shaft needs some work.

 

[c_dk]

The local GM execs really enjoyed my Dad's 62 Starfire he would loan to them while their 2nd and 3rd cars were in our shop for service, so I have a soft spot for the Olds over the caddy......

Still think the new knobs on the old classics makes it and therefore the owner, look like a "want to be" compared to the correct style for the correct vintage.

Gow's perspective on it is not printable in a family friendly forum.......let's just say the time in the RAF endowed him with some interesting uses for English.

 

[Mike Gibson]

Good looking setup Eric. I did the knob switch long ago when I ended up with gear from the 70-80-90's.

 

[62caddy]

Still think the new knobs on the old classics makes it and therefore the owner, look like a "want to be" compared to the correct style for the correct vintage.

Believe me - I get that 1000%.

But in this case, the mismatched knobs with the MPI4 bugged me. Were it not for that, I probably wouldn't have done a thing. I spent a lot of time (and expense) trying to source the right knobs for the job - does that smack of the handiwork of a butcher - or of one who reveres and cherishes his gear? It's not like I found some crummy generic parts (which would be more akin to the Crager wheel analogy).

And of course, I would never make a mod that couldn't easily be reversed unlike, for example, some hatchet jobs I've seen on Cadillac dashes with some aftermarket Kenwood CD player stuffed in.

GG isn't here today, but if he had never worked for Mc, I wonder which look he'd prefer for the three units pictured.

 

[SA7I]

Believe me - I get that 1000%.

But in this case, the mismatched knobs with the MPI4 bugged me. Were it not there, I probably wouldn't have done a thing. I spent a lot of time (and expense) trying to source the right knobs for the job - does that smack of the handiwork of a butcher - or of one who reveres and cherishes his gear? It's not like I found some crummy generic parts (which would be more akin to the Crager wheel analogy).

And of course, I would never make a mod that couldn't easily be reversed unlike, for example, some hatchet jobs I've seen on Cadillac dashes with some aftermarket Kenwood CD player stuffed in.

GG isn't here today, but if he had never worked for Mc, I wonder which look he'd prefer for the three units pictured.

It looks good!

 

[seacliffe301]

Believe me - I get that 1000%.

But in this case, the mismatched knobs with the MPI4 bugged me. Were it not there, I probably wouldn't have done a thing. I spent a lot of time (and expense) trying to source the right knobs for the job - does that smack of the handiwork of a butcher - or of one who reveres and cherishes his gear? It's not like I found some crummy generic parts (which would be more akin to the Crager wheel analogy).

And of course, I would never make a mod that couldn't easily be reversed unlike, for example, some hatchet jobs I've seen on Cadillac dashes with some aftermarket Kenwood CD player stuffed in.

GG isn't here today, but if he had never worked for Mc, I wonder which look he'd prefer for the three units pictured.

Very nice Eric, you have an impressive system there that you must be very proud of. I went through the same exercise in the early 80's with the acquisition of a C32. My system then consisted of a C28, 2505, & MR77.
They were all displayed side by side and it just bothered me that the C32 didn't match the others. It did not seem practical to retro fit anything on to the C32, so I went in the other direction. Unless my memory is wrong, I don't think that I had seen that treatment having been done prior to that. We certainly didn't have the internet to look at pics for comparison. I remember calling Mac to confirm that all the knobs, as well as chrome end caps would indeed work as intended (they did). While I do respect and admire the look of the original knobs, there are certainly extenuating circumstances such as these which allow for creative license.
IMO, it's not THAT sacrilegious, plus they do look good. I thought the MR77 visually came to life, like a little brother to the MR78.
When I sold the C32 & 2505 together to a colleague, I explained what I had done and asked if he wanted me to restore the original knobs to the unit. He said no, I like these better.
A few years later, I acquired an MR78, and he ended buying my 77. Again, he wanted it left as is. As a matter fact, he didn't even want the original knobs.

I think it was mentioned that you're looking for the the straight style end caps. Good luck, that will really complete the transformation.

 

[c_dk]

Well, must have been 1978, first sales meeting with our Mac rep, Oscar Erricson out of that city down south where that school down south was located.(Columbus Ohio).

Now to keep this family friendly......for this engineering nerd it was a startling session.

Oscar talked about how Mac had hired two summer interns from U of M to develop the silkscreen/ backlight nomenclature color/change for the Mc2505 and C26 preamp.

A Columbus native reaping praise on U of M was not the startling part.....it was about how previous to those two units they had also engaged industrial design and market research interns from U of M to design the layout of their earlier preamps and the reasoning behind the shape and size of the knobs.........This naive engineering nerd had no idea that industrial designers could be so kinky!!

Did not Earl get some flack for some of his bumper designs that had too much WW2 nose art influence on them.....

Like I said I had no idea about how much research companies would do to determine what knob size most men were comfortable handling......so when I give you flak about your knob preferences I can't help but remember the big gulp and nervous locker room chuckles from the first McIntosh sales meeting I attended.

As I stated earlier in regards to GG, the terms he used reflected a definate English perspective at least in my mind since I don't think that particular term is common in Alberta.

 

[62caddy]

Well in the position of someone professionally immersed hi fi/ Mc trade, I can well appreciate the viewpoint - something along the lines of...Oh boy, another yahoo who just can't resist the temptation to "upgrade" his Mc kit, accompanied by a quick shake of the head with eyes upturned. I'm exactly the same way when when I see later model Cadillac wire wheels thrown on production years for which they were never originally intended.

When you're in the business, you definitely don't look at it the same way as the average Joe. In this case however, the plain silver knobs just don't coordinate well with the rest of the unit(s) IMO. Being the first series glass units, they probably didn't give it much thought either way - content to use the same style knobs they had been all along on the earlier tube gear. Strange they kept the old knobs going long after 1973 when the new knobs appeared on the MPI4 & MR78.

PS: I'm not sure about Earl's bumper designs but I do know that tailfins were not his brainchild contrary to popular belief. Ol' Harley had a well-known penchant for taking credit for the design accomplishments of his subordinates.

 

[damacman]

oh boy ... chris - relax will ya? caddy likes it and so do I!

 

[Mike Gibson]

Let's put the knob argument in the M.A.A.N. file OK?
Much Ado About Nothing

 

[c_dk]

Hey, you guys have asked for inside information in the past, most of which I do believe I should not share.

If you had been in the meeting and knew the inside story I believe you would all be looking for the largest knobs available, let alone the particular shape of the tone controls.

That said, I just can not have a inside knowledge snicker at some owners OCD about appearance without their knowing why Mac's marketing people chose the size and shape of their classic tube units knobs.

I can not help but chuckle......

 

[seacliffe301]

Hey, you guys have asked for inside information in the past, most of which I do believe I should not share.

Don’t get discouraged Chris, I for one (as I’m sure most do) appreciate the inside scoop and insight into this addiction so many of us suffer from. This topic is no exception.

 

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, you guys have asked for inside information in the past, most of which I do believe I should not share.

Asking for insider information is one thing but flogging a dead horse is another. You made your point quite clearly with your first reply. So let it go................

 

[c_dk]

Mike, this is in fun........

If you don't appreciate the true "Madmen" industrial design research done by McIntosh in the late 50s early 60s OK, but it really happened as politically incorrect as it is in today's thinking.

Again in fun I can't but mention that the first unit to debut with the "new" knobs was the MAC1900 in 1973, a unit designed to help the Mac receivers appeal better to the females of the household.

I would guess that the excellent sales of that unit helped lower the bulk costs of the knobs and led to use of them on the MR78 and then later units as unit sales volumes declined. The MR78 being a outlier.

A true gunge ho believer in the industrial design/market success concepts might suggest that Mac's unit sales decline in the late 70's could correlate to their abandoning their overt appeal to the male purchaser. Might even be a thesis in it.

 

[chef free]

Looks good to me, but then again I think everyone should lose the stupid plastic bezel around the meters on the 2205, 2125, 2155, 2255, etc...

 

[62caddy]

I once read that Mc speakers could be no higher than ~ 3 feet because that was as tall as the average housewife would tolerate... but black knobs were supposed to help on that front as well? That's truly astonishing. I wonder what the reasoning behind the black knobs on the MPI4 was...

Looks good to me, but then again I think everyone should lose the stupid plastic bezel around the meters on the 2205, 2125, 2155, 2255, etc...

Those I left on. I like them but they have to be in nice shape or they won't look good.