Kouetsu Cartridge Identification
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zwuttoo
Super Member
Kouetsu ??( I guess it's a misspelling from the OP??)
The name of the manufacturer is misspelled( for an OEM manufactured Koetsu Black cartridge)
Musasino????
Should be Musashino if it is a OEM Koetsu Black.
As far as I know, Musashino only made the early Black versions (Mk 1 & Mk 2), I've never seen one with the Musashino name on the bottom of any early Koetsu Black, and this one is not only "misspelled" but also looks like it is
made of some type of wood (rosewood?), original Musashino Blacks was made with an aluminum body.
Hopefully someone with some knowledge of "Musasino" cartridges can jump in and solve this "mystery"?
Early (first issue of) Koetsu Black
designed by Yoshiaki Sugano manufactured as OEM (under contract) by Musashino Audio Laboratories in Japan in the early 80`s.
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zwuttoo
Super Member
Koetsu Black
This model was intended as an entry level device and the first two versions were made OEM by Musashino Audio Laboratories. The stator of the first Koetsu black bears little resemblance to later models but a cross-bar mounted generatotor, boron cantilever and standard stylus are retained.
Stylus & Cantilever Arrangement:
The boron cantilever is tapered at the end and the diamond inserted into a longitudinal split . The diamond is unusual in having a shaft elongated in the direction of the cantilever - presumably to increase the coupling with the cantilever, but unfortunately increasing tip mass. Superficial inspection makes the diamond appear to have been rotated through 90 ° compared to a conventional stylus . The tip has a super-elliptical profile.
Mark 1
About 1980 - serial numbers 5xxxx to 52xxx. Body dimensions for sample cartridge are Length 23.94mm (base): Width 10.11mm: Height 14.36mm rear 15.15mm front Weight is 9.9g. Coil resistance 4.6 Ω. Output 0.64mV @ 1,Hz 5 cm/s Compliance 7.7 cu The shallow recess under the cantilever and a screw on the front of the body only appear on this version. Later versions have a simple slot under the cantilever. The cowl over the generator starts at a line joining the mid-points of the fixing holes. About 3000 cartridges appear to have been made .
Mark 2
About 1982 - serial numbers 527xx to 55xxx. Body dimensions for sample cartridge are Length 24.07 mm (base): Width 10mm: Height 14.46mm rear 15.1mm front. Weight is 11.2g. Coil resistance 4.9 Ω . Recommended Loading 50 - 500 Ω Output 0.45mV @ 1,Hz 5cm/s Frequency Response 10Hz - 50 Hz Compliance 14 cu. Channel Separation 30dB. Channel balance 0.2dB (average) Vertical Tracking Force 1.7 to 2.2g. Body shape is very similar to the modern Koetsu range and the generator is much more typical of the later black. The shallow recess under the cantilever has gone and is replaced by a simple slot. The screw on the front of the body has also gone. The different generator design results in the cowl over the generator being moved further forward, beyond the mid-point of the fixing holes.
This model was intended as an entry level device and the first two versions were made OEM by Musashino Audio Laboratories. The stator of the first Koetsu black bears little resemblance to later models but a cross-bar mounted generatotor, boron cantilever and standard stylus are retained.
Stylus & Cantilever Arrangement:
The boron cantilever is tapered at the end and the diamond inserted into a longitudinal split . The diamond is unusual in having a shaft elongated in the direction of the cantilever - presumably to increase the coupling with the cantilever, but unfortunately increasing tip mass. Superficial inspection makes the diamond appear to have been rotated through 90 ° compared to a conventional stylus . The tip has a super-elliptical profile.
Mark 1
About 1980 - serial numbers 5xxxx to 52xxx. Body dimensions for sample cartridge are Length 23.94mm (base): Width 10.11mm: Height 14.36mm rear 15.15mm front Weight is 9.9g. Coil resistance 4.6 Ω. Output 0.64mV @ 1,Hz 5 cm/s Compliance 7.7 cu The shallow recess under the cantilever and a screw on the front of the body only appear on this version. Later versions have a simple slot under the cantilever. The cowl over the generator starts at a line joining the mid-points of the fixing holes. About 3000 cartridges appear to have been made .
Mark 2
About 1982 - serial numbers 527xx to 55xxx. Body dimensions for sample cartridge are Length 24.07 mm (base): Width 10mm: Height 14.46mm rear 15.1mm front. Weight is 11.2g. Coil resistance 4.9 Ω . Recommended Loading 50 - 500 Ω Output 0.45mV @ 1,Hz 5cm/s Frequency Response 10Hz - 50 Hz Compliance 14 cu. Channel Separation 30dB. Channel balance 0.2dB (average) Vertical Tracking Force 1.7 to 2.2g. Body shape is very similar to the modern Koetsu range and the generator is much more typical of the later black. The shallow recess under the cantilever has gone and is replaced by a simple slot. The screw on the front of the body has also gone. The different generator design results in the cowl over the generator being moved further forward, beyond the mid-point of the fixing holes.
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lini
just me...
Over there another exemplar was identified as a Rosewood (Longbody) - see there: Koetsu Users | Question , spoke to a member and would like further opinion | Facebook
And I've seen another exemplar on that nameless Japanese database, but without a model designation - see there: その他のカートリッジ(日本
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
energysaver
New Member
Wow, what a discovery.
Thank you Manfred very very much. And from Munich. Wow.. long way
I have the Supex SD900 wooden body and they look exactly the same.
I wander if they sound the same..
Thank you again very much for talking the time
Thank you Manfred very very much. And from Munich. Wow.. long way
I have the Supex SD900 wooden body and they look exactly the same.
I wander if they sound the same..
Thank you again very much for talking the time
zwuttoo
Super Member
With more research and deep dive into the subject it is evidently an very early Sugano-Musasino-Koetsu made cartridge,
and the Japanese characters definitely say Koetsu so it is obvious a very early Sugano Koetsu Rosewood creation made in collaboration with Matsusino labo,
It is well known that Sugano worked for Supex and designed several cartridges for them,
and it seems that Matsusino Lab was also an OEM manufacturer for Supex(?).
I never seen one of these early Koetsu-Matsusino Rosewood cartridges, didn't even know of its existence,
and you learn something new every day as long as you live and it is amazing what knowledge there is possessed among the members of Audiokarma.
PS Strange and a bit confusing that there are two different spellings of the name since both spellings seem to originate from Japan??
and the Japanese characters definitely say Koetsu so it is obvious a very early Sugano Koetsu Rosewood creation made in collaboration with Matsusino labo,
It is well known that Sugano worked for Supex and designed several cartridges for them,
and it seems that Matsusino Lab was also an OEM manufacturer for Supex(?).
I never seen one of these early Koetsu-Matsusino Rosewood cartridges, didn't even know of its existence,
and you learn something new every day as long as you live and it is amazing what knowledge there is possessed among the members of Audiokarma.
PS Strange and a bit confusing that there are two different spellings of the name since both spellings seem to originate from Japan??
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cafe latte
Addicted Member
Here is the Onyx from the same era I fixed the other day, they sound amazing.
This was in a terrible state with two breaks in the coils, the receiving tube was bent back on itself ( not sure how that is even possible).
Like yours too the protective membrane was long gone. What ever you do this needs replacing as otherwise the coils are exposed to dirt.
Hard to tell from the pic if it is gone or stuck to the coils, either way it needs fixing.
All the best
Chris
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energysaver
New Member
Wow, so much information.
And yes, it is fascinating how much knowledge our community members have. Unbelievable.
Thank you everyone for enlightening my Koetsu knowledge data . I was fortunate enough to buy a Supex SD 900 wooden body in new condition.
And Chris statement “Like yours too the protective membrane was long gone.” was brilliant. I’ll stay away from that ‘mystery’ Koetsu rosewood if it had this membrane damage. I was planning to fix it with Boron Rettip , but not prepare for membrane repair.
thanks again Chris.
And thanks all members for such a supportive informative elaborate input..
And yes, it is fascinating how much knowledge our community members have. Unbelievable.
Thank you everyone for enlightening my Koetsu knowledge data . I was fortunate enough to buy a Supex SD 900 wooden body in new condition.
And Chris statement “Like yours too the protective membrane was long gone.” was brilliant. I’ll stay away from that ‘mystery’ Koetsu rosewood if it had this membrane damage. I was planning to fix it with Boron Rettip , but not prepare for membrane repair.
thanks again Chris.
And thanks all members for such a supportive informative elaborate input..
zwuttoo
Super Member
If you search the internet you will find terribly little information about this very early Koetsu Rosewood - Musasino Audio Labo creation, If you search the internet for "Koetsu Cartridge History", you will find absolutely nothing about this cartridge, the only thing mentioned is the early Koetsu Black as a collaboration between Koetsu and Musashino?
Is there anyone here on the forum who has more information on when, where, how and even why this collaboration took place?
Is there anyone here on the forum who has more information on when, where, how and even why this collaboration took place?
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cafe latte
Addicted Member
The membrane can be replaced, the one in the picture had no cantilever, no membrane and broken coils, it is amazing what can be fixed.
Cheers
Chris
zwuttoo
Super Member
HOLY MOSES!!
Just found this ???
I have apparently completely missed this information and statement regarding Sugano's connection to Supex.
Supex occupied that same period of MC cartridge history as early days of Koetsus. Incidentally there's been lots of talk & rumour about Sugano being involved in the design of early Supex models, specifically the SD900. Certainly Sugano was acquainted with the Asakura brothers & cartridge design would very likely have been discussed, but AFAIK, no one has any evidence that Sugano was involved with the design of Supexes.
"I knew both Sugano and Asakura (Supex) personally, and certainly there was some connection between Sugano and Supex. But as far as I know (rumors not withstanding), Sugano never designed nor built anything that was sold under the Supex brand."
( Jonathan Carr)
JC = Lyra Cartridges
If this is the truth,I wonder where the information about Sugano as the designer of the Supex SD900 Super (E+, E+ II), SD909 (Mk I, MkII) originated from, is it just a made-up assumption, an accepted internet HiFi myth or what??
Just found this ???
I have apparently completely missed this information and statement regarding Sugano's connection to Supex.
Supex occupied that same period of MC cartridge history as early days of Koetsus. Incidentally there's been lots of talk & rumour about Sugano being involved in the design of early Supex models, specifically the SD900. Certainly Sugano was acquainted with the Asakura brothers & cartridge design would very likely have been discussed, but AFAIK, no one has any evidence that Sugano was involved with the design of Supexes.
"I knew both Sugano and Asakura (Supex) personally, and certainly there was some connection between Sugano and Supex. But as far as I know (rumors not withstanding), Sugano never designed nor built anything that was sold under the Supex brand."
( Jonathan Carr)
JC = Lyra Cartridges
If this is the truth,I wonder where the information about Sugano as the designer of the Supex SD900 Super (E+, E+ II), SD909 (Mk I, MkII) originated from, is it just a made-up assumption, an accepted internet HiFi myth or what??
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