La Scala maintenance?

[pragmatic001]

Hello gents (and ladies),

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I picked up a pair of used 1990 La Scalas a couple years ago and I'm loving them, they still sound fantastic. The only work that's been done to them as far as I can tell is the big oil caps in the crossovers have been replaced.

Here are my questions for you fellows:

What kind of general maintenance do I need to do to keem 'em singing, if any?

I've heard a lot about aftermarket crossovers or crossover upgrades. When do you recommend switching them out? Is the improvement significant?

Thanks in advance.

 

[snowdownunder]

Hello & welcome pragmatic001,

Congratulation on your La-scalas I hope you will still be enjoying them for many years to come as my wife and I do.

I've coated my K-400 horn with sound defusion material, not sure if your horns would be metal or composite, mine are metal.

I replaced the wiring going to the woofer with some good cable and did away with the joiner in the circuit.

Crossovers: I'm using the ALK ES networks, ES4000 and the ES500T. Al who sells these networks is a genius in the field of networks and has done lots of research and development into Klipsch networks. I don't want to rave on too much about them so check out his web site.

http://www.alkeng.com/klip_hom.html

I have also used AA, AL-3 and ALK universal networks, but the ES's are where it's at for me.

With the ES4000 networks I'm using the CT-125 tweeters. This seems to be a good match for this network as well as the ALK universal. You can check them out at the ALK website or at

http://www.critesspeakers.com/
Lots of other stuff to check as well.

One of the great features of the ALK networks is the ablity to adjust the level of the mid range and the tweeters in the case of the ES4000. The tweeter can be adjusted with the universal networks with the addition of ALK Tweeter attenuator.

There are other networks available but I can only comment on what I've tried.

Cheers
snow.

 

[jlc76]

How easy is it to check the woofer out to see if the surround is ok? I would assume it is a cloth accordian type surround and not foam so it may not be necessary.

 

[pragmatic001]

Thanks for the information Snow. I've ran across the ALK crossovers before. They look like real quality stuff, but they're too expensive for me. I paid less than that for my La Scalas!

I see he lets you build the ES500T yourself, which is awesome, but I couldn't find DIY specs for the ES4000. I'd happily buy the necessary tweeters if I could get the ES4000 in a kit. I couldn't find it on his site.

My mid horn is fiberglass, I think, doesn't sound metallic when I tap it with my finger. Is it still worth it to do the coating in that case?

I've also heard of guys packing the area around the horn with bags of sand. What do you think about that?

Thanks for all the great info. Give me something to do on my laptop while I listen to my system.

Cheers

 

[Edriz]

Check out the B&K A/4500 crossover with the CT-125 tweeters. I just upgraded mine and the CT-125 tweeters are B&K's anyway
And the A/4500 were made with the CT-125 in mind are a perfect match, much cheaper then the ALK and they sound great. JMO
The A/4500 can be found at the same site as the CT-125 link on the crites website

 

[Coytee]

For me, presuming your drivers & networks are in reasonable working order, one of the biggest changes in sound is to tame the resonating side walls.

You might have seen some LaScala type designs with a (how to describe this?) ...with a triangle turned horizontal and stuck inside the mouth of the bass bin?

This is to help keep the sidewalls from flapping away. The new LaScala II's are much thicker and tame this from their mass. They sound like they have an entire octave of extra bass than the standerd LaScala (I've owned a pair for 30 years).

I asked about that difference and was told by Jim Hunter that the walls are the problem... that BOTH versions put out the same energy it's just with my pair you can't hear that lower bass because of the sides.

He went on to say that if I could beefen up my side walls, I would get sound (bass output) similar to the LaScala II's.

I've got a third LaScala that I'm going to use as my beater box to try it with.

 

[pragmatic001]

> I asked about that difference and was told by Jim Hunter that the walls are > the problem... that BOTH versions put out the same energy it's just with my > pair you can't hear that lower bass because of the sides.

> He went on to say that if I could beefen up my side walls, I would get sound > (bass output) similar to the LaScala II's.

I've been thinking about a non-invasive way to dampen the sidewalls without butchering the cabinets.

I might try buying a couple 70lb sand bags and hanging them over the top of the speaker so they rest on the middle of the side walls. I'm hoping that will dampen the vibration enough to let me "try out" the sound before I commit to something permanent.

 

[Edriz]

Hey Coyote, Is there a link or photo you know of showing the "triangle" your talking about. I'm also working on a pair of that Riser modification.

Maybe it's me but I think the bass on the Lascala is just fine the way they are but out of curiosity, I'm going to try the Riser Mod. Especially since I already made risers for the Lascalas when I bought them originally. And I have all the other materials needed. (4" PVC pipe and a bit of insulation and liquid nails to hold the PVC in place)

 

[pragmatic001]

Riser mod? Cool. I haven't head of that one. Can you link me somewhere?

 

[Coytee]

Maybe it's me but I think the bass on the Lascala is just fine the way they are

Once you hear the LaScala II and hear the difference (which will take you all of 32.543 nano-seconds) my guess is you will recant that statement

I'll look around on the Klipsch site & see if I can find a picture

For the sake of simple trial/error, I wonder if you could simply lay a LaScala on its side and put your weight on the top (which would be the other side now turned up) to tame the resonating?

The reason I'm wondering this is I might stick a different horn on top of mine so having my mf and hf horns sideways woudln't matter. I realize in your situation you wouldn't want them sideways BUT... for the sake of checking out any bass response changes, I wonder if that would help clarify it for you?

(never done it myself so take the advice for the amount you paid :thmbsp

 

[Coytee]

Interestingly enough, I found a thread started by yours truely! About 3 comments down you can see a LaScala style bass bin with the reinforcement wedgies installed.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/105190.aspx?PageIndex=1

 

[Edriz]

Once you hear the LaScala II and hear the difference (which will take you all of 32.543 nano-seconds) my guess is you will recant that statement

I'll look around on the Klipsch site & see if I can find a picture

For the sake of simple trial/error, I wonder if you could simply lay a LaScala on its side and put your weight on the top (which would be the other side now turned up) to tame the resonating?

The reason I'm wondering this is I might stick a different horn on top of mine so having my mf and hf horns sideways woudln't matter. I realize in your situation you wouldn't want them sideways BUT... for the sake of checking out any bass response changes, I wonder if that would help clarify it for you?

(never done it myself so take the advice for the amount you paid :thmbsp

I don't think I'll have the opportunity to hear a pair of lascala II's but I'll take your word for it. I do know at about 15-20 watts, my whole house vibrates. I can only wonder what the riser mod will do.

Putting the scala on the side with me on the other side would do no good. How would i "hear" the difference being on it instead of in front of it?? :headscrat Or am I as confused as ever, or maybe more. Oh no..Just what i need, more confusion.

 

[Coytee]

ahhh...and here, seems to be one thread about the LaScala bass extension.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/27063/226370.aspx#226370

 

[Coytee]

Putting the scala on the side with me on the other side would do no good. How would i "hear" the difference being on it instead of in front of it??

My oh my... you are confused. It's not YOU that's sitting on top of it... it must be your wife. Additionally, she can't sit on it....she must be standing on her head whilest at the same time keeping her eyes and smile, which ironically upside down, will look much like a frown, but you must disregard that illusion, trained upon you while you change out various sound sources to scientifically test the theory.

During any break, she must then go fetch you some refreshments, after all...you are doing a lot of research here. Then she must resume her stance with her smile. Again, do not let the close resemblence of a frown distract you, it's simply what women do. You must realize that she is finally fulfilling her lifes dream...being of help to you while you perfect the sound you seek!

Trust me on this, would I lie to you?

:scratch2:

 

[Edriz]

They drawing of the Riser is what I am working on. Right now as a matter of fact. I"m getting ready to mark out the 4' holes and drill them. I should hve them dome tomorrow

 

[revenoor]

My oh my... you are confused. It's not YOU that's sitting on top of it... it must be your wife. Additionally, she can't sit on it....she must be standing on her head whilest at the same time keeping her eyes and smile, which ironically upside down, will look much like a frown, but you must disregard that illusion, trained upon you while you change out various sound sources to scientifically test the theory.

During any break, she must then go fetch you some refreshments, after all...you are doing a lot of research here. Then she must resume her stance with her smile. Again, do not let the close resemblence of a frown distract you, it's simply what women do. You must realize that she is finally fulfilling her lifes dream...being of help to you while you perfect the sound you seek!

Trust me on this, would I lie to you?

:scratch2:

OH my dear Richard, must you yank this Klipsch owner's chain? Yep, I know, it was there to pull.
Usnret

 

[Coytee]

Wha??? You infer that his wife must do something different?

No wonder yours was soooooooooooooooooooo happy when you brought them big Khorns home...

Ya know... ya ain't a man til you bring a pair of Jubilees into the wifes living room against her will.... some people like to swallow swords, some like to jump the grand canyon on a motorcycle...others...simply like to live dangerously! :thmbsp:

 

[snowdownunder]

Thanks for the information Snow. I've ran across the ALK crossovers before. They look like real quality stuff, but they're too expensive for me. I paid less than that for my La Scalas!

No Worries,
Yes I agree the ALK’s look gOOd, but the most important thing for me is they sound better. A friend of mine now has the universals, tweeter attenuators and CT-125’s in a pair of 1976 Belle’s with the old K-55-V’s & original K-33 square magnet woofers and they do sound good.
The ALK’s aren’t cheap, I get the feeling some people resent that but that’s what it cost. I’ve spent more than twice as much on networks the original cost of the speakers.
Is it worth it? For me yes, it’s got me smiling, but it won’t be worth it for everyone. If I go up two settings on the mid attenuation, after a few days I feel like I want to set the speakers on fire, so for me it's a must to be able to fine tune the speakers.

I see he lets you build the ES500T yourself, which is awesome, but I couldn't find DIY specs for the ES4000. I'd happily buy the necessary tweeters if I could get the ES4000 in a kit. I couldn't find it on his site. !

If you go though all the stuff on the web site there is one of the ES networks that he prefers to build himself because of the layout, I’m not sure which one. The ES4000 is the same layout as the ES5800 with the components having different valves. There was a custom made set for sale a while back; the guy did make both networks himself with Al’s blessing.

Al has always returned my emails, so if you have any questions just ask him but don’t forget he is a genius as some people do harass him and tell him his stuff is no good.

The CT-125 tweeter are quieter, I recon 5 to 9dB’s going off my ears and the Attenuators, so that’s good if your tweeters are giving you headaches. They seem to be a good match for the universals as well. The CT-125 do sound more natural and match up to the ES4000 better than they did to the ES5800, I’m using them at the moment and have no plans to stop.

My mid horn is fiberglass, I think, doesn't sound metallic when I tap it with my finger. Is it still worth it to do the coating in that case? !

Your speakers are 14 years newer than mine; if your horn isn’t metal don’t touch it, until you get good advice otherwise.

What crossover do you have?

I've also heard of guys packing the area around the horn with bags of sand. What do you think about that?!

I did exchange emails for a while with a guy that said that he had packed sand around his horns. I mentioned it on a local audio forum and got ripped to shreds and told I didn’t know what I was talking about, so I’m not sure. What I can tell you for sure is I won’t be doing it. In my opinion sand and HI-FI don’t mix.

Going back to you original question about maintenance, when I removed the K-400 horns I was surprised to see that one of the wires going to the mid driver had broken its solder joint and that the mid drivers were a touch loose on the horns. So checking for dry or loose solder joints and the tightness of the mid driver to the horn every 5 or so years might not be a bad idea.

Cheers,
snow:thmbsp:

 

[snowdownunder]

How easy is it to check the woofer out to see if the surround is ok? I would assume it is a cloth accordian type surround and not foam so it may not be necessary.

I get a nice big soft rug and lay it on the floor, then turn the speaker upside down and remove the screws that secure the woofer cover. Then remove the woofer screws and have a look.
Just make sure your networks are properly secured first.

I've never blown one and the 2 originals that I removed about 5 years back were still OK.

Cheers,
Snow.

 

[Edriz]

QUOTE=pragmatic001;2785138]Riser mod? Cool. I haven't head of that one. Can you link me somewhere?[/QUOTE]

Sorry I misses ya and didn't mean too, I can't seem to find the link but I do have a pic of the modification. This is basically a riser. All you would do is remove the bottom cover of the Lascala, This mod would go under the lascala, add a little fiberglass insulation, maybe grab some nylon stockings and put those over the ends inside the pvc so the fiberglas fibers can't escape into your listening room. You may also need some foam window sealer, the kind you use to help air from coming in your windows on your house, put that around the top of the riser for insulating the riser to the bottom of the bass bin of the lascala. Take the Bottom that you removed from the lascala and transfer to the bottom of the new Riser.

This mod is supposed to take the low freqs down to low 30Hzs. I have my Riser Mods just about completed. Thought I had a length of 4" PVC laying around from when I added an addition to my house that included a master bathroom. Searched high and low but I guess I must have given it away or got rid of it for some reason. Now i have to go buy a 10' length for a whopping 28" that I need.

Oh yeah, I did forget to mention that the PVC for the risers is 7" long and 4" dia. The riser should be 10" high. My risers are 8" but thats because I built these risers 25 years ago because I wanted the lascalas off the floor. I basicly thought back then that I wanted the lascalas to have the bass bins up off the carpet and a little closer in line with my listening position. So, instead of buying whatever amount of 3/4 " plywood and building a new pair of risers I decided what's 2" and use the ones I already have.

Okay all you mathematicians out there, I don't want all your responses on how many cubic inches I'm loosing. If I decided that the riser is worth the difference in the sound, then and only then will I spend money on a permenent Riser maybe.

The nice thing with this Mod is it's totally reversable I'm hoping to have it done today and will give it a total work out tomorrow. Can't do it today, wifes off from work and my stereo is in the living room. That being the case, I do have to respect and be considerate of everyone. She's working this weekend... I'll let you know what I think of the MOD after a good hard work out. Besides, the Lascalas need to be cranked, the dust is starting to build up and the best way to blow that dust out of there is to "Turn It Up"