• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

La Scala's and sub experiment

sberger

sberger

Hard Core Geezer
Subscriber
To begin with, I really like my '77 stock LS's. In my room with my gear I have what I consider to be more then adequate bass, even if the lowest bass is missing. But obviously I get a lot of push back from comments like these and a lot of advice that says a sub is required. So with that out of the way, here's my situation.

I have a buddy locally who trades in audio gear. He has the following 4 subs available for me to try out:

REL R328

REL T5i

Klipsch RSW 15

Earthquake Supernova MKV

I've done the briefest amount of research, and am thinking of trying out the T5i first. I've read that it's very musical, and also that it's powerful yet small. So I'm looking on thoughts on it, and any of the others as well.

Here is a picture of my room. As you can see, the LS's inhabit the corners, where I've read the REL would be best placed. I've also heard that other places will work. Any thoughts/advice on that would be appreciated.

Lastly, I'm using a McIntosh MX110. It only has one set of Main Out's, so I would plan on splitting the signal with my amps which is presently a McIntosh MC240. I assume that's cool?

That's it. TIA.

36327950-21-DB-4-C66-8795-11-A1-CF568633.jpg
 
Register to hide this ad
Nice room, been thinking about a Sub for my Scalas as well so will be watching. Your 240 is more than adequate for your set up. In fact, I sometimes use a small 4 wpc sep amp on mine, try it! Al
 
AlTinkster92 said:
Nice room, been thinking about a Sub for my Scalas as well so will be watching. Your 240 is more than adequate for your set up. In fact, I sometimes use a small 4 wpc sep amp on mine, try it! Al
Click to expand...

Thanks. Yes this(and the MC30's I also swap in) are a great match for the LS's.
 
How much music do you listen to that has significant sound in the lowest octave? Even with reggae, I don't find them lacking in bass. If I throw something on with electronic subsonic bass, then yeah, I'm missing a sub. I also don't feel that electronic music is what these speakers do best, though. Other than questioning whether you actually need a sub, I can't be of any more help :)
 
vinylaudio said:
How much music do you listen to that has significant sound in the lowest octave? Even with reggae, I don't find them lacking in bass. If I throw something on with electronic subsonic bass, then yeah, I'm missing a sub. I also don't feel that electronic music is what these speakers do best, though. Other than questioning whether you actually need a sub, I can't be of any more help :)
Click to expand...

Other then those unlike you and me that can't believe any pair of speakers don't do better when they have a sub, I'm with you. I don't listen to any music that I feel the bass isn't plenty. So to be clear, I absolutely don't feel the need for a sub. This thread was started because I have easy free access to 4 subs so thought I'd throw it out there about experimenting and see what opinions folks might have about those available.
 
You might end up hearing a bit of a mismatch. To be fair, I know nothing about the subs you reference.

Mixing the horn bass with a direct radiator sub might be heard.

Best answer is horn sub but those are huge and most shy from them.

We buried a Danley DTS-10 into the wall
 
Coytee said:
You might end up hearing a bit of a mismatch. To be fair, I know nothing about the subs you reference.

Mixing the horn bass with a direct radiator sub might be heard.

Best answer is horn sub but those are huge and most shy from them.

We buried a Danley DTS-10 into the wall
Click to expand...


The experiment is pretty much over. Tried a couple of them, and between integration and them probably not being the right fit, I had enough.

The bottom line, though, is that there isn't enough of a desire/need for a sub in my situation. I'm using 50-60+ year old gear for a simple 2 channel system in a medium sized room. A lot of folks giving me advice for subs, telling me how I'm missing important parts, are also those folks who have a lot of money invested in more recent gear and sophisticated theater set ups. That's not me. My system gives me everything I want. I've never been a guy who needs to squeeze every last bit of sound out of my system. I get it to where it sounds right for me, and then I sit and listen. The only thing that causes me to occasionally change up gear is curiosity, not need.
 
sberger said:
The experiment is pretty much over. Tried a couple of them, and between integration and them probably not being the right fit, I had enough.

The bottom line, though, is that there isn't enough of a desire/need for a sub in my situation. I'm using 50-60+ year old gear for a simple 2 channel system in a medium sized room. A lot of folks giving me advice for subs, telling me how I'm missing important parts, are also those folks who have a lot of money invested in more recent gear and sophisticated theater set ups. That's not me. My system gives me everything I want. I've never been a guy who needs to squeeze every last bit of sound out of my system. I get it to where it sounds right for me, and then I sit and listen. The only thing that causes me to occasionally change up gear is curiosity, not need.
Click to expand...

I went through the same thing when I had my Belles. I got a huge vintage Velodyne sub with an 18” driver to supplement the lows, but it always sounded like two separate systems running at the same time. I got rid of the sub, but eventually I got rid of the Belles, too. However, I still have my Crites-upgraded Industrial La Scalas, and like you, I’m quite happy with the bass.
 
joecoulson said:
You guys who didn’t like the sub with the Klipsch might have been missing a DSP and good bass management from crossovers to properly integrate them? Unless you all tried? Helps to dial in phase and polarity along with level matching.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you're right, w but that would be way overkill for my 2 channel only system. I'm just a simple amp/preamp guy. Updated my crossovers today with the most bare bone one that Klipsch makes and my La Scala's sound excellent with all the bass I could wish for, in line with what I've experienced over decades of listening. I realize in the brief amount of time I experimented with the sub that it takes too much work for me to integrate a 3rd speaker for whatever small payoff I might get. Just not in need/want of it enough to care.
 
When I had my Belle clones, I really disliked listening to them without a sub as that roll off starting at 100hz then really dropping off at 60hz just didn't work for me. So, I used a Sunfire HRS-12 sealed subwoofer and crossed it over at 60hz and it worked much better. Ultimately, I traded off the Belle clones for 2 sets of Epic CF-3's which I enjoy MUCH better...to my ears. I'm not saying or recommending to go out and trade them off for something else or stick a hugacious horn on top of them that are larger than the LS's. Just saying that adding that little extra on the low end made them more enjoyable for me with the lower register. The Sunfire sub currently isn't hooked up but I may hook it up for poops and grins and roll it out at 40hz or so.
 
With my Cornwall IV’s, I have the sub come in at about 45hz with a 24db slope. That coupled with the fantastic bass from about 40hz and up from the 15’s in the CW’s makes for a superb listening experience. IMHO.
 
So many variables between folks like me who don't feel we're missing anything, and those that do. I firmly believe the gear driving the speakers, the room size, speaker placement, and how one uses the speakers(2 channel audio only, or home theater multi speaker), plus preferences, type of music, etc play a huge role in what ultimately provides complete satisfaction. I have not heard of that many(maybe any) folks who use 60 year old tube gear in an audio only, 2 channel set up talk much about the need for more bass. My La Scala's are tucked nicely in corners in a medium sized room. I listen at moderate at best volume, mostly vinyl, but some digital. McIntosh MC30 amps through a McIntosh MX110z preamp. That's it. Just not missing anything, and I'm talking about comparing my present set up with the same music I've been listening to for decades(so I know it well) through all kinds of gear/speakers in all kinds of rooms. I would know if I was missing something essential to my listening enjoyment.

I have Cornwall 1's tucked in corners in a second system, smaller room, driven by a McIntosh MC240 amp and McIntosh C11 preamp. Again, no lacking of bass whatsoever.

I think if you're using more recent gear, especially solid state, in larger rooms for multi function purposes, and also to music that is more recent with more emphasis on exaggerated bass(and nothing wrong with that, of course) your requirements may be different.



I've listened to expensive systems in friends houses who are set up for elaborate two and multi channel, and have had them play with, and then without, the subs. For music alone(especially the music I prefer) I always preferred it without. It's not that they didn't know what they were doing or how to set them up correctly. It was just my preference. I've watched movies in those houses also, and having subs for movies that demanded it did make a positive difference.

So it does come down to what we require as listeners, and finding ways to get the sound that we want until we get to a point were we say "that's it!", and then be done with it.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom