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Legal vs. Illegal music......Where is the line?

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sb47

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For those that are old enough to remember, back in the day radio stations would have what they called album hour. Where they would play whole albums with no interruption so millions could record there favorite music for free.

Now days, down loading is illegal, unless you pay for it. What is the difference?
You were still getting the music for free.
I remember when duel cassette recorders became popular and you could record from one tape to another and back then it was legal.

Is it still legal to record music off the radio for free?

Why is music sharing illegal now and not back then?
If I brought over my CD’s to your house and let you rip them on your HD it would be considered illegal.
Since when did gift giving become illegal?

Would the same law prohibit you from bringing an album over and letting you record it, verses a CD?

I can buy CD’s very cheap at Goodwill and its legal. Or you could just give me a CD and it would be legal, but if I let you record or rip it, only then does it become illegal.


So the question is, what is legal and what is not and how did it become that way?
 
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It may still be legal to record music off the radio but.....WHERE'S THE MUSIC??
I got rid of my tuners years ago and the only radio I have now is in my car and I very rarely listen to the commercials and advertising and the yahda, yahda, yahda that's on there.
I remember too back in the day when radio stations had "album hour."
 
Try a web search for "fair use". The music industry has fought all copyright infringement for a long time. They've had to accept some concessions, but got royalties for blank media.
 
I used to record my vinyl to cassette right up til a few weeks ago. I think once you buy the product, if your recording for your own use, thats fine. If your recording to sell or give away, thats illegal. If you are buying an album to give away as a gift, thats fine since you did purchase the album.

What has been and still is illegal is any time you get music from whatever source, radio, download etc without paying for it, that is illegal and stealing IMO.
 
Bob_in_OKC said:
Try a web search for "fair use". The music industry has fought copyright infringement for a long time. They've had to accept some concessions, but got royalties for blank media.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Tape manufacturers did, at one point in time, have to pay record companies royalties. It was a small percentage but still had to pay.
 
The whole difference is that a recorded copy off your radio station was an analog copy of an analog signal. It was fine as we knew it, but it was NOT perfect and was a step down from the original album (vinyl). If you copied your cassette or RR recording say, for a friend, you stepped it down another generation and another loss of fidelity.

And in the past the music companies weren't happy about tape copying - remember the campaign to charge a fee for every cassette tape sold? And a campaign later to charge a fee/tax for every blank music CD as well.

Now with the Torrent sites and FLAC or WAV files, you get an EXACT copy of the original media and it can be duped EXACTLY
it over and over with no degradation and no change in fidelity.
Such dupes could be thought to intrude on buying "legal" factory copies of music ...
Some folks feel why buy a CD (digital recording) from the store when you can get a perfect digital copy elsewhere for less or no charge?

I'm taking no position, just explaining the technology.
 
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I don't think it was EVER legal to record off of the radio. It was just not easy to control. I think dubbing decks allow you to make a copy of your own cassettes for personal use. That is legal. Dubbing your friend's cassette is not legal.

If you are buying a recording, you are paying for a "license" to reproduce its contents. My buying you a CD as a gift is not illegal, as I've paid the distributive cost for you. Me ripping it for you does not cover those costs and thus would pose a legal issue as I see it.
 
I've heard it was legal then because of the quality degradation (from radio to tape). While digital is basically a duplication, or ones and zeros, of the original.
 
Ok, so if deragation of the media is the standard then ripping a WAVE file to an MP3 is a loss in some quality of the original. But it’s still considered illegal.
 
I don't think that the increased signal degradation of analog duplication made the process any more "legal". It's just that the recording industry did not find the situation as threatening. In the 80s, cassette market penetration was fairly high, and most home recordings were of vinyl early in the decade, or digital discs later in the decade. So either way there was a sale along with that cassette recording, or else you were buying a pre-recorded cassette. So cassette recording just didn't seem to be as threatening.

Besides, the dub was not as high quality in most cases.
 
There has always been conflict between the people who listen to the music and those who own the rights to it. Those that were taping music from the radio were actually acused of breaking the law for years and threatened with fines or incarceration. It took several lawsuits and court cases to prove that we had the right to tape music. Taping a friends record was considered illegal untill those cases affirmed our rights. The movie companies made a monumental effort to block the sale of VCRs and tapes when they were first offered stating that they would destroy the movie industry but our rights were once again proven. DAT faced the same hurdles because it could copy a CD perfectly. The whole history of recorded sound and images is loaded with attempts by the industries to make copies illegal but it is only recently they have one. Fifty years of legal precedents have been reversed within the past few years.
 
Back in the day it took a while. You had to wait for the song, then record it properly. Then wait for the next song and so on. The amount of time it took to get a mix tape full took a while.

It was just not a problem for the industry.

MP3s on the other hand... 90s: Let the computer run 2 days and you had 200 albums.

With todays high speed net, you can do 1000 albums in that time easy. And exactly what you want. An artists complete discography (All pink floyd albums in good quality) can be dl in what, 40 minutes tops?

That IS a bigger problem.
 
sb47 said:
For those that are old enough to remember, back in the day radio stations would have what they called album hour. Where they would play whole albums with no interruption so millions could record there favorite music for free.
Click to expand...

-album hour was not so people could record the album from the radio. it was playing an album as it was meant to be played. if you did that, and sold it, thats illegal. if you did it for your own home use, It was probably illegal, but no one could enforce it. It would have been considered a bootleg.

you have to keep in mind as well, that musicians didn't make the big money back in the day. the record companies did. This all became a bigger deal when the artists finally started trying to get what they deserve. imho
 
The problems all started when certain commercial products enabling the copying of records became available. Well, DUH, people began using them to copy records. How else were they supposed to enjoy their at home music in the car? Or reduce wear on their records?

But, that was then. During this period certain music hardware makers became players in the media creation arena. Some bought record companies, and some bought movie studios. And while they were at this they developed and marketed the very systems and goods which made media copying possible. They were, and still are, happy to rake in profits from the production, selling AND copying of media and b!+ch about the fact that it is going on.

Sometimes I have to get another cup of something steaming hot and sit with it on the patio wondering if the rest of this century will pass with our present level of no common sense.
 
The big problem with MP3 files is unrelated to degradation. It's illegal distribution. The person who posts the files is distributing them. It is what the industry refers to as piracy, although the RIAA's website calls it "too benign of a term".
 
On the subject of "bootlegs", anyone recall the bootleg 8-tracks that were sold in gasoline stations back in the day?

Apologies for my above rant/vent about radio commercials etc......but really! That crap drives me insane(er).
 
I don't worry about it.

If I want physical new music; I buy a CD or LP.

Othwrwise I pay $15 a month for Rhapsody and add to my 900+ playlist; leagally.

I know; simple guy right?


Matt
 
The problem with the audio cassettes (besides a lack in dynamic frequency) was that there wasn't any "protection" or encrypting. Vinyl, 8-tracks, RTR's and CD's didn't have any of that, so it was fairly easy to make a copy (regardless of the inferior blanks for analog).

At least with VHS and Beta (I think), they had methods to warp/shift the color and horizontal clamp when trying to copy from one VCR to the next in attempting to dub Movies and other copyrighted material. Not saying it was/is right, but a lot of TV shows weren't even offered on VHS to buy or they were crazy expensive since they were the sold as "broadcast use" tapes. You were at the mercy of recording shows so you could watch missed or re-watch your favorite TV shows. It hasn't been until recently that you can even buy old TV shows (on DVD now).

EDIT: I guess some ways companies are fighting illegal downloads of movies/games is buy putting up their own fake torrents of their movies/games with a virus. That will show them pirates....
 
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keithpgdrb said:
-album hour was not so people could record the album from the radio. it was playing an album as it was meant to be played. if you did that, and sold it, thats illegal. if you did it for your own home use, It was probably illegal, but no one could enforce it. It would have been considered a bootleg.
Click to expand...


Good point, but I do remember radio stations promoting album hour and encouraging listeners to get there recorders ready and be sure not to miss the opportunity to record a whole album uninterrupted.
So in essence the radio stations were encouraging the boot legging or pirating of the music there were going to play.
 
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