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Lenco L70

bobaloniny

bobaloniny

newt
Its been a good day on the tt front as far as Im concerned. So let me get the 2 ceremonial parts out of the way. SCROE :banana:(sorry..just barely ever get to do things like that).

I happened to be lucky viewer number 13 of a Kijiji ad for this-

L70.jpg
For the princely sum of $35. Called and went, no breathing in between.

So, got it home, needs a little cleaning up but it runs beautifully and has a good stylus on it, and sounds great.

Now for the questions, it presently has a Stanton which I believe to be a 500 EE MKII. I say that, as I didnt take the cart out of the headshell, however the stylus is marked VMS 20E MKII, and when punched in at VE, the former is the cart that came up. I slid the dope scale under it and it appears to be tracking at about 1 gram. If thats accurate I guess its set up correctly for that stylus/cart.
So is this appropriate for this tonearm? What would be? And the final question, anyone have a link towards an OM for this table? Not that its so complex a deck, but you know how we all jones for the paperwork.
Thanks in advance for any assistance/ enlightment.
 
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Balifly said:
Congratulations on your new SCROE!!!:banana:

A four speed Lenco too!!!:thmbsp:
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And any speed in between the 4 ;)

Congrats are in order indeed!
No idea on the cart that came with it.
I have an OM Arkiv at home, I'd slap that one on first (Price here of that one here is 40€).

When in the USA I'd also have a Shure M97xE and Red Ed (Elliptical) around for testing TT's. (resp. 50$/30$ I believe)

Then again, if the original cart/stylus sounds decent...
 
Thanks guys..shore do preciate the attaboys.
I ask about the cart choice and tracking because Ive seen some talk on the web here and there about that arm requiring a heavier cart and heavier tracking to be truly happy..one guy suggested a dj cart and tracking at 2.5 grams.
I can say that for the couple recods that have run across this table here, things seems to be happy with the Stanton tracking at 1 gram give or take, Im just not seeing or hearing where this is a problem.
Obviously I would prefer to do the right thing, but I cant deny what Im experiencing realtime either.
Anyway..this would be the basis for my earlier questions.
 
Congratulations! :thmbsp:

I just saw this thread. Any progress with this TT? As you probably realize by now, you've found a little gem of a vintage TT. It has the heavy platter of the more famous (and more common) L75, but with an earlier, heavier arm that with the right cartridge, is a great performer.

I have two of them. It seems a lot of people find them in the form of Bogen 60/61/62 TTs, but mine are both Lenco badged. I think Bogens were sold in the US, and Lencos in Europe and elsewhere.

The arm is one of those designs that dates back to the days of 78s, so it is pretty heavy, high-mass, and not well suited to today's light-tracking, high-compliance carts. Stick with heavy, low-compliance carts and you'll be happy. A lot of people have had success putting Denon 102 (mono) and 103 carts on these; I put a 103 on mine and like it a lot :music:, even without transplantation to a heavy plinth. (My first one I'm keeping in the plinth it came in, which is a nice Empire-like vintage one; the second one will be a DIY project, but I haven't gotten to it yet.) Others have reported success with some Shures, Pickerings and Stantons (DJ carts!), but that is hearsay (which I cannot confirm). Do try to track at around 2.5 grams minimum for best sound; the arm was actually designed for 5 or 6 gram tracking at a minimum, and can accommodate up to 15 grams (:yikes:) of tracking force.

You can find detailed pics of the arm, and a very useful tip for re-assembling it, here:
http://www.freewebs.com/bornin50/gl59.htm

If you decide to disassemble, clean and lube the arm (I suggest you do, for best performance) be VERY careful and do it over a pan or something. You'll see in the pics that there are small, circular ball races. If the little ball bearings come out of those races and fall, you'll probably never find them again, so working over a tray that can catch and hold them is a wise precaution. There is no anti-skate in the normal sense, and tracking weight is controlled by adjusting the spring in the back end of the arm, instead of a counterweight. It sounds primitive, but it works well. It actually tracks better than a counterweight arm would, if you are trying to play records with vertical (scallop-edge) warps.

One complication arises from this design, though: your TT MUST BE ABSOLUTELY LEVEL to avoid distortion and record wear. This is doubly important with a design like this, compared to most newer tables.

Because of the size and design of the headshells, which were designed for the older and larger 78 and flip-over carts, you may need to make adaptor/mounting plates to mount some newer carts correctly. No harm in this, and it gives you a chance to add dampening/improve sonics.

Most L70s came with the plastic idler wheels. I've read that ALL of them did, but one of mine came with the metal 2-hole wheel, and I know of one other that was foudn that way. Perhaps they had been replaced, or perhaps there was a change during production; I'm not sure. The rubber used in the plastic wheels is inferior to the stuff used in the metal wheels, and will usually have degraded. Also, the plastic wheels sometimes have warped. In most cases the plastic wheels will either need to be replaced, or at least redone with new rubber. You might consider trying the fancy titanium wheels offered on eBay, along with the matching arm.

Personally, I think people should be conservative when it comes to modifying the L70s very much, as they are rarer than the L75s, and quite nice as they are. Clean and restore it, and transplant it into a heavy/massive plinth for best sound (or fill in your original plinth to enhance the sound while preserving the look, or just leave the plinth original). These steps are always reversible, but if you plan to cut up the top plate and make other more drastic changes, I'd recommend finding one of the much-more-common L75s to do that with.

I'd highly recommend joining Lenco Heaven (the successor site to the much-lamented LencoLovers site) and reading all the threads there; you can spend days looking at what people have done with these TTs and soaking up tips and advice. You'll find it to be fun and time well-spent.

Again, congratulations on your SCORE. Even at several times the price you paid, it would still have been a bargain! :yes:
 
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That is indeed a score. I have two as well, though only run is running currently. I run a DL-103 on mine and it sounds nice. The cart works very well on this table...and I picked up some old GE mono carts to play with on it.
 
Thanks for the favorable Arkay and John...means alot as this tt has come to mean alot to me..I REALLY enjoy this deck in about 20 different directions.
I will start hunting down a low compliance cart so it can be happiest. I am also screwing together the courage to do the right thing by the tonearm, although in a way its against my grain as Im more of a dont fix if it aint broke kinda guy.
Also going to look into an idler, this ones plastic, and though there are no problems with it at present (quiet running and no speed probs), I can see how early to mid 60s plastic and rubber can become problematic quickly.
Beyond that, maybe add some deadening /mass to the plinth thats there, thats about the size of it. I can think of all sorts of tts that I would have no probs heavily modding, but this really doesnt strike me as one of them. Just a nice, simple machine, constructed to a different set of standards to please a different midset.
 
Arkay said:
Others have reported success with some Shures, Pickerings and Stantons (DJ carts!), but that is hearsay (which I cannot confirm). Do try to track at around 2.5 grams minimum for best sound; the arm was actually designed for 5 or 6 gram tracking at a minimum, and can accommodate up to 15 grams (:yikes:) of tracking force.
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I tried my dj cart (Ortofon Arkiv) on a friends L70 recently. Sounded d#mn well. (Far better than on my B55 and L78)
If you have an L70 and no budget for an expensive low compliance cart this is an excellent choice ime.

Arkay said:
I'd highly recommend joining Lenco Heaven (the successor site to the much-lamented LencoLovers site) and reading all the threads there; you can spend days looking at what people have done with these TTs and soaking up tips and advice. You'll find it to be fun and time well-spent.
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Also did this (I think on Arkays advice too, thanks! ;) ).
There's really a ton of info to be found there from really experienced TT users. :yes:

Arkay said:
Personally, I think people should be conservative when it comes to modifying the L70s very much, as they are rarer than the L75s, and quite nice as they are. Clean and restore it, and transplant it into a heavy/massive plinth for best sound (or fill in your original plinth to enhance the sound while preserving the look, or just leave the plinth original). These steps are always reversible, but if you plan to cut up the top plate and make other more drastic changes, I'd recommend finding one of the much-more-common L75s to do that with.
Click to expand...
bobaloniny said:
I am also screwing together the courage to do the right thing by the tonearm, although in a way its against my grain as Im more of a dont fix if it aint broke kinda guy.
Click to expand...
I'd leave this Lenco as original as possible too.
Most Lenco's can be found here, but I almost never see an L70 (perhaps because it's the oldest one of the Lxx series?) for sale..
Just mod the headshell if the cart requires it for a good setup, but otherwise just (greatly!) enjoy it as-is.
The heavy/massive plinth treatment also prescribes attaching the top plate to the plinth (no more spring suspension) and I wonder how this arm combination would 'like' that. (I really wonder it, thoughts on that are welcome ;) ).
 
bobaloniny said:
...
The heavy/massive plinth treatment also prescribes attaching the top plate to the plinth (no more spring suspension) and I wonder how this arm combination would 'like' that. (I really wonder it, thoughts on that are welcome ;) ).
Click to expand...

Getting rid of those springs and adding mass to the plinth isn't just about the tonearm. It's mostly about "sinking" vibration from the motor, so that it doesn't even reach/affect the cart/stylus, either via the platter or via the tonearm. As the TTs were sold, they are almost like washing machines bouncing on suspensions: if there is any slight vibration from that (relatively) powerful, high-torque motor, whatever isn't dealt with by the motor mounts will be passed on to the top plate, and thus to the tonearm. The big, massive plinth with the top plate anchored securely to it, effectively means the motor is trying to "move" a much greater mass, so there is a lot less vibration passed through and into the tonearm. I'd go ahead and get rid of those springs, add as much mass to the plinth as you can, and anchor the top plate down. Leave the motor-mounts, though (renew them if you can). I did this on one of my L70s, and --as with the other Lencos and, in fact, all the other idler-wheel TTs I've tried it with-- the sound was improved.

Back when these were made, the thinking in "springing" the top plate may have been reasonable, but now there is a proven, better way. UNLESS the difference is that the springs help with bouncy floors -- my floors are reinforced concrete slabs that won't budge with anything less than an earthquake... but even wiith bouncy floors, I'd still want to add the massive plinth and bolt down the top-plate, and then look at how to isolate that whole assembly. You'll reduce motor noise, at the very least.

Lots of other little tweaks out there, like replacing the idler-arm springs with elastic (yes, the underwear stuff!), damping the idler-wheel mounting arm with teflon tape, etc... Most of these are reversible, so there is no harm in applying them even to a TT you wish to preserve as original; they can always be removed/reversed. Read up on LencoHeaven, and decide how much or how little you wish to do, and above all, have fun and enjoy the music! :music:


Oh, one other suggestion: read up on other popular idler-wheel models like the Garrard 301/401 and Thorens TD124. Some of the best tweaks and techniques I've used with Lencos were "transplanted" from discussions of these models. What works well with one idler-drive TT usually works well with another, and not all the ideas are in any one thread, or even site.
 
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