Let's Talk About Amplifier Clipping.
- Thread starter ken kantor
- Start date
Chris Brown
Super Member
I have a few questions remaining regarding clipping.
Without having anything to do with harmonics or tweeters, isn't there still a possibility of damage due to clipping simply as a result of the extra power being fed into the speaker?
Despite the amp being at it's maximum and clipping, the average power output can still increase. You could end up with a 100wpc amp putting out much more than 100wpc.
Again, without anything having to do with harmonics or tweeters, isn't that fact dangerous all on it's own?
Without having anything to do with harmonics or tweeters, isn't there still a possibility of damage due to clipping simply as a result of the extra power being fed into the speaker?
Despite the amp being at it's maximum and clipping, the average power output can still increase. You could end up with a 100wpc amp putting out much more than 100wpc.
Again, without anything having to do with harmonics or tweeters, isn't that fact dangerous all on it's own?
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That had to be fun... I have Krell class A monoblocs here at home that idle at 170F on the heat sinks and draw 8A each at idle... using them on the "amp killer" Kappa 9's...
Early on in the development I was testing a couple and there was a failure. I went in to investigate without thinking things through. I grabbed the terminals to unhook them and suddenly realized that I hadn't turned off the amps (outside the room) with 2kW of EIA426A pink noise. It's amazing how fast someone can moonwalk across a room.
Back to the topic at hand...clipping was not an issue with our amp array.
ken kantor
Fowl Humor
Early on in the development I was testing a couple and there was a failure. I went in to investigate without thinking things through. I grabbed the terminals to unhook them and suddenly realized that I hadn't turned off the amps (outside the room) with 2kW of EIA426A pink noise. It's amazing how fast someone can moonwalk across a room.
Back to the topic at hand...clipping was not an issue with our amp array.
Sounds like your nervous system clipped!
-k
ken kantor
Fowl Humor
I have a few questions remaining regarding clipping.
Without having anything to do with harmonics or tweeters, isn't there still a possibility of damage due to clipping simply as a result of the extra power being fed into the speaker?
Despite the amp being at it's maximum and clipping, the average power output can still increase. You could end up with a 100wpc amp putting out much more than 100wpc.
Again, without anything having to do with harmonics or tweeters, isn't that fact dangerous all on it's own?
You are correct. But, the original question was about the relative danger between small and large amps.
If you add a third graph to your first two, one just like the second one, except where the amp is made bigger... even MORE Watts go to the speaker. This shows, yet again, that the bigger amp is ALWAYS more potentially dangerous. There is >NO< situation where a bigger amp presents less danger to the tweeters or the woofers than a small amp.
-k
ken kantor
Fowl Humor
I don't quite know how you got that as your take away. There are >NO< circumstances where a smaller amp is more dangerous to woofers or tweeters than a larger amp. None. The bigger amp >ALWAYS< presents more danger. That is the correct take away. If you are coming up with a different answer, you need to think the problem through again. No other answer is correct, I'm afraid.
-k
Yeah, I mean when I connect my little Pioneer BS22's to one of my t-amps, I have no fear of damage, but the first time I used it with my 200wpc B&K, I was real mindful of the volume control at first until I realized they were ok with it. I bet if I really drove that amp hard, those BS22's would go bye bye, but they get as loud as I need before that so they continue to live.
Great, as in the last week I have been using a fairly small tube amp to power a pair of Infinity Quantum Line Source speakers, and from all the accounts of people claiming how a lack of amp current will cause damage to my EMIT's in these old Infinity's had me a bit concerned. But I couldn't control myself I just couldn't get myself to pull the plug.
So now my only concern will be damage to the poor little amp. I hear no signs of clipping or distortion and its not like I am having a party, just simple nice listen levels.
So now my only concern will be damage to the poor little amp. I hear no signs of clipping or distortion and its not like I am having a party, just simple nice listen levels.
davidro
Lunatic Member
someone needs to keep this as his/her AK signature.
I've got it. Crystal clear.
I'd posit, however, having worked tech support, that more tweeters ARE blown by smaller amplifiers. I have no hard data.
If we choose to accept this premise, should we consider the less-invested (and possibly less knowledgeable) owners the mechanism?
JimPA
Distinguished Member
Ken I was once told that the extended pole piece helped to increase the power handling of a driver?
The pole piece of some of the OEM drivers I use have a pole piece that are 5-10 mm longer than the stock verisons.
My thoughts on your third point would lead me to believe this.
Having a longer pole piece is a larger surface area and volume for heat diissipation away from the voice coil to prevent overheating.
Well, part of me compressed, that's for certain.
With a higher powered amp the overall volume keeps going up more linearly as you crank the knob. Before you get to the point where the tweeter gives up, your ears do. With a lower amp that goes into clipping/compression the volume doesn't go up much as you dump more and more power to the tweeter.
Another possibility is that more people own smaller amps than monsters so the absolute frequency of tweeter failure is higher but a normalized statistic might tell a different story.
ken kantor
Fowl Humor
ken kantor
Fowl Humor
ken kantor
Fowl Humor
Yup! Larger pole piece = more area. And, probably, more time spent close to the coil.
-k
ken kantor
Fowl Humor
nailer
audionerd
Think I've figured it out. Low power amps destroy tweeters because being small makes them angry and picking on tweeters makes them feel powerful. Big amps just like blowing things up, after all that's what the big and powerful do - destroy. So I'm sticking with moderate power amps because in their moderation they don't want to cause any trouble.
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ofajen
Daddy-O-Daddy-O-Baby
I have a few questions remaining regarding clipping.
Without having anything to do with harmonics or tweeters, isn't there still a possibility of damage due to clipping simply as a result of the extra power being fed into the speaker?
Despite the amp being at it's maximum and clipping, the average power output can still increase. You could end up with a 100wpc amp putting out much more than 100wpc.
Again, without anything having to do with harmonics or tweeters, isn't that fact dangerous all on it's own?
Perhaps, but the average output won't get much more than 3 dB higher before it is essentially all pulse waves (at which point the average and peak are roughly the same).
Otto