Let's Talk Higher-End Vintage CD players!
- Thread starter cjsvinyl
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Those PCM-1702's are nice DACs. The Denon DCD-2700, DCD-3000 and some others have 4 of them, 2 per channel.
Cheers,
James
Studying the SM's of players to learn the differences between the Asian, Euro and US models can pay off.
I've found where the Asian models have bypass film caps for the main filter caps and output coupling caps. Often the pads are there on the pcb for them in the US & Euro models, they just aren't populated, so it's an easy thing to add them. The Asian models usually have different op-amps in the analog section, which hints towards what better op-amps can be installed there. Sometimes the main filter caps have larger capacity, as well as some of the local filter caps, again indicating where improvements can be made. And the Asian models also sometimes have different analog output coupling caps.
All of the above shows where a person can gain some nice SQ improvements by copying what was done in the Asian models. In another direction it can pay off to find the data sheets when you see something interesting. When I was looking through the SM for my CD-S2000 I found that the bridge rectifiers in the analog section were Schottky diode parts. After reading the data sheet for them I realized that they would work just fine in my CX-1 pre-amp so I bought some and installed them in that unit.
Cheers,
James
I've found where the Asian models have bypass film caps for the main filter caps and output coupling caps. Often the pads are there on the pcb for them in the US & Euro models, they just aren't populated, so it's an easy thing to add them. The Asian models usually have different op-amps in the analog section, which hints towards what better op-amps can be installed there. Sometimes the main filter caps have larger capacity, as well as some of the local filter caps, again indicating where improvements can be made. And the Asian models also sometimes have different analog output coupling caps.
All of the above shows where a person can gain some nice SQ improvements by copying what was done in the Asian models. In another direction it can pay off to find the data sheets when you see something interesting. When I was looking through the SM for my CD-S2000 I found that the bridge rectifiers in the analog section were Schottky diode parts. After reading the data sheet for them I realized that they would work just fine in my CX-1 pre-amp so I bought some and installed them in that unit.
Cheers,
James
Yes, Yamaha sold 120V versions of the limited centennial edition in the US.
alanl
Active Member
It
is not just a therapist he needs - it is a new brain, though even that might not cure his foolish and immature opinions
I had a long journey since 1990 with my Nakamichi OMS-5 Mark II Player, Sony based.
Bought it new.
First step was the enormus price difference between the OMS-5 and OMS-7.
1000$ for a remote, programmability (I hope it is the correct term) and headphone output.
Got me a service manual, found out that that the 1000$ price difference was close to fraud.
Almost everything for extra functionality was already implemented as
the main boards of the OMS-5 and 7 are identical.
All other boards beside the headphone board had passive components on them,
So ll you basically needed was a remote + reciver to be able to program the OMS-5
but you needed a new VFD to see what you were doing…
And it was just a passive VFD,with some extra Segment, completely passive.
So even buying an OMS-5 plus a new front panel, IR receiver, keyboard,
remote, headphone PCB as spare parts from Nakamichi was cheaper
(cost of spare parts would have been about 600$ in 1990) than buying an OMS7.
But I got a broken OMS-7 in 1995 for a few bucks et voila, full functionality.
Then I became dissatisfied with the sound, worked some time on providing a digital out.
Nothing was there to solder a wire on, a small circuit board had to be made to transform the
internal Signal (following a Sony Standard) to SPDIF using an IC from Texas Instruments.
This happened around 2006.
But I was still unsatisfied with the external DACS.
So around 2011 I ripped the DAC and analog output stage out
and replaced it with a ES9018 32-bit DAC. The Nak got even 5 Inputs to serve
as an external DAC. Audiokarma.
Then I bought another OMS-5EMarkII for a friend, around 2018,
relatively cheap as the belt that drives the laser was rotten.
After repair I tested this unmodified original against my modded one-
a did not find any severe differences,
though I know that the original PCM54 DAC is far superior.
Circle closed.
Bottom line:
I am happy with my modded one from 1990 for the sake of better measurements,
the friend is happy with the used unmodded one and even prefers its sound
over his temporary players.
But now I know (again) that better sound can be a trick of the brain.
The journey still goes on, in the moment I am working on replacing the belt for the
lasern (which has become very expensive as as spare part) with gears,
Gear is already bought, waiting for a friend to modify them so that they can be put
on the original mechanics...
Bought it new.
First step was the enormus price difference between the OMS-5 and OMS-7.
1000$ for a remote, programmability (I hope it is the correct term) and headphone output.
Got me a service manual, found out that that the 1000$ price difference was close to fraud.
Almost everything for extra functionality was already implemented as
the main boards of the OMS-5 and 7 are identical.
All other boards beside the headphone board had passive components on them,
So ll you basically needed was a remote + reciver to be able to program the OMS-5
but you needed a new VFD to see what you were doing…
And it was just a passive VFD,with some extra Segment, completely passive.
So even buying an OMS-5 plus a new front panel, IR receiver, keyboard,
remote, headphone PCB as spare parts from Nakamichi was cheaper
(cost of spare parts would have been about 600$ in 1990) than buying an OMS7.
But I got a broken OMS-7 in 1995 for a few bucks et voila, full functionality.
Then I became dissatisfied with the sound, worked some time on providing a digital out.
Nothing was there to solder a wire on, a small circuit board had to be made to transform the
internal Signal (following a Sony Standard) to SPDIF using an IC from Texas Instruments.
This happened around 2006.
But I was still unsatisfied with the external DACS.
So around 2011 I ripped the DAC and analog output stage out
and replaced it with a ES9018 32-bit DAC. The Nak got even 5 Inputs to serve
as an external DAC. Audiokarma.
Then I bought another OMS-5EMarkII for a friend, around 2018,
relatively cheap as the belt that drives the laser was rotten.
After repair I tested this unmodified original against my modded one-
a did not find any severe differences,
though I know that the original PCM54 DAC is far superior.
After replacing the belt of the Nak bought used in 2018
I did also measure all servo signals according to the service manual.
They were all spot on... after 30 years...
This is what makes me love vintage players:
I did also measure all servo signals according to the service manual.
They were all spot on... after 30 years...
This is what makes me love vintage players:
Circle closed.
Bottom line:
I am happy with my modded one from 1990 for the sake of better measurements,
the friend is happy with the used unmodded one and even prefers its sound
over his temporary players.
But now I know (again) that better sound can be a trick of the brain.
The journey still goes on, in the moment I am working on replacing the belt for the
lasern (which has become very expensive as as spare part) with gears,
Gear is already bought, waiting for a friend to modify them so that they can be put
on the original mechanics...
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Bradbrews
Super Member
I recently put a Sony XA777ES into service.
Wow!! The more time I spend with it the more impressed with it I am. I got it because it no longer recognizes SACD and the prior owner is into multi channel, which the Sony no longer delivers- but on plain redbook CDs it delivers the goods!
Enough to make me resurrect this old thread.
Wow!! The more time I spend with it the more impressed with it I am. I got it because it no longer recognizes SACD and the prior owner is into multi channel, which the Sony no longer delivers- but on plain redbook CDs it delivers the goods!
Enough to make me resurrect this old thread.
I have been looking for a Kenwood CD player with a silver face to go with my KA-7100 and KT-5500, but can only find them from Japan in 100v, currently there is a DP-7090 in Japan that is exactly what I am looking for, it has very good specs.
The first issue is condition, if broken can it be repaired, second issue is getting it from Japan without being damaged, third issue is that it is 100v, I know there are external converters that can be used but is there a way to change voltage internally so an external adapter is not needed? Fourth issue is cost, there may be tarriffs etc in addition to a high price. Just wish there were good silver faced Kenwoods made for the states.
The first issue is condition, if broken can it be repaired, second issue is getting it from Japan without being damaged, third issue is that it is 100v, I know there are external converters that can be used but is there a way to change voltage internally so an external adapter is not needed? Fourth issue is cost, there may be tarriffs etc in addition to a high price. Just wish there were good silver faced Kenwoods made for the states.
You're right to try to get hold of one, they are very good. I have two, both black in my small collection of CD players. The Dac, mech etc are..
KENWOOD DP-7090
8 x PCM1702 – SM5843AS1 + KAN04
KSS-213B / KSS-213C
You may also like to look at http://www.lampizator.eu/lampizator/references/Kenwood7090/Kenwood CD 7090 CD player lampizator.html
I only did his recommended capacitor mods, a change of OpAmps and other simple stuff. I use it with an outboard 100V transformer. It became a real giant killer. Great detail, wonderful 3D image and not at all fatiguing. In an audio store test session, it bested their players up to £4K in price, after the mods.
I have had a record deck sent over from Japan to the UK. (Kenwood KP9010) All was fine as delivered, though the import duty and taxes were damaging to my wallet!
All the best.
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I read the article you reference a few months ago while researching the best Kenwood CD players, the 7090 has tons of mod potential. Curious as to how bad the import duties and taxes were for you.
Obviously there will be different taxes for every country, but for the U.K. it was about 28% of the cost on top of the purchase price. By the way, the OpAmps are 8 pin in line, so I used this type of adaptor to fit surface mount types instead.
https://www.cimarrontechnology.com/product/browndog-130801-single-to-dual-op-amp-adapter
Do you know what mods you'll carry out?
Hi-end CDP's; I went to this old dudes house recently to buy my 2nd Beatles Collection boxset. All his equipment was top notch, he mentioned he was a widower and audio was his hobby. Among the 100K worth of analog equipment, he had a CDP (unsure the brand) that had a separate DC power supply that sat on another shelf, it was the exact size of the CDP. Didn't get to listen to this, but it looked impressive.
Was looking at this mod: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/mods-cd-player-kenwood-dp-7090.278461/
Would you mind providing your BOM list?
Hi.
I did all the capacitor changes as suggested on Lampizator, (coloured dots) the diodes on the PSU changed for fast recovery ones, and I changed the Op Amps to BB 2604 as I was not sure how detailed one could take it before the sound became harsh, (it did not). Other Op Amps may well be OK or even better but I;m happy with those for now. I also changed the caps at output RCA's to PIO (3.3uf) and pypassed with small teflon caps. I was happy to try things out as the unit was only £5 (with a broken mech) I replaced that (£8 at the time) and then all the other stuff. The final cost came to about £70. I have no reason to doubt anyone elses ideas, just that I have not done them (yet
)We knew the owner of a fair sized audio retailer at the time, Over a full afternoon he allowed us to compare it to some players he had in one of his demo rooms. It bested his at £1K then £2K and lastly one at £4K. It presented a great 3D illusion, no harsh traits, either on that system or on my much lower one, (It did not beat a MBL 1531 (£8K)). The test system was high end, (in one of his larger demo rooms) and added up to about £120K in cost, so it allowed the CD players to really show what they could do.
I've a collection of CD players, (mainly bought cheap when CD's were out of fashion) mostly TDA1541 machines,(Cambridge Audio's early ones, Micro Seiki M100 etc, but others too, Tube Technology Fusion, ROTEL RCD-991 and some bit's and bobs). I find that the PCM1702 is similar (in the machines I have) to the PCM63, and both are much better than the PCM58 (as used in the KENWOOD DP-8010). But overall, even with any "measured" failings, I still prefer the TDA1540 or 41 family of chips. These are not always great, it depends on machine (Marantz CD80 and even the Marantz CD7 I did not really 'Bond' with), but in others it can just be more 'human' so to speak. But these things are personal and system dependant. All being said, I do like the modified 7090, it's cheap, has good sound and spare mechs cost next to nothing (£12 or so nowadays).
I hope that helps a bit.
Good luck.
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Did you use Oscon's?
Did you do the sowter or sowterless lapmization?
What are your thoughts on the mod from diyAudio I linked to?
Hi.
I only did the things that I said. I did not do the full Lampization as I did not wish to put that much money into the machine. I used Oscons where he suggested, Panasonic FC or Elna SILMIC in the other places, I also changed the values too. I have not done those other mods so I could not comment, but I noticed that others had commented. "But however do not take out c15 and c17 as the player wont read cds anymore".
All in all, quite simple mods if you can use a solder sucker or solder wick, the most difficult part was fitting the small surface mount Op Amps to the adaptors.
The simple mods I did made a really big difference, far better than you would expect for the cost, Lampizator really knows what he's talking about, I would trust his advice.
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I was thinking about putting this inside the case since there is room:
https://acupwr.com/collections/japa...nese-electrical-devices-in-usa-canada-ajd-300
Seems quite expensive to me, I just bought a stand alone external unit.
Yes, it is very expensive. It is also top quality with a lifetime warranty, and if I am going to invest the amount of money needed to purchase and refurbish a DP-7090 I do not want to cheap out on the power supply.