Let's talk Quads and Rock Music

[Erocka2000]

Hey Folks,

I have been interested in getting some Quad speakers lately, either the original 57s or the 63s. Every time I think I'm ready, I start to second guess myself. It's mainly because the one caveat that people always state is that Quads don't do rock music.

Now I'm not the one to listen to Mastodon or Slayer on a normal basis, but I do listen to all kinds of rock from classic to indie. Nothing too heavy. Will either of the Quad versions be able to produce a pleasurable experience when listening to something like Radiohead's OK Computer or Pink Floyd's Meddle?

Another question I have is choosing between the two different models. Most people say the 57's mid-range is unrivaled, yet the 63's are the more complete speaker. My current speakers only go down to 35hz, so I'm not a bass junky by any means. I also have a Quad 303 amplifier, which is obviously perfect for the 57s. Would my Cronus be good for either of the models?

Bonus - Are there any AK'ers in Brooklyn/NYC who have a set of either of the Quads?

 

[JohnVF]

I have a pro-monitor version of the 63 that is basically equivalent to the USA Monitor (the last version of the 63, I think). That particular model can handle more power without sending a short back to the amp, and my rebuilt examples have adequate bass for the type of music you described. I also have the Gradient woofers (bipolar woofer/subwoofers that act as stands, and a crossover that cuts off the ESL at 110hz)...and to be honest, it is my opinion and that of others who have heard them, that the bass is actually better full range, just using the quads, in my room.

Another caveat- mine are hooked to a beast of an amp. That is not recommended on early 63s, and not at all suggested on 57s unless you want to destroy them, the amp, or both.

When I first heard them, my impression was that they had more bass than I'd thought they would. They get down there, and I only really miss the slightly limited dynamics when I go back to my Harbeth Compact 7s. The Quads are better speakers than the Harbeths, IMHO.

 

[Erocka2000]

As far as amplification goes, I have three current options: Quad 303 (~40w), Rogue Audio Cronus (55w) and a Sansui 9090db (125w). I definitely wouldn't try the Sansui with 57s and I'd even be a little nervous using the Cronus on them.

I'm glad you find that the 63s can handle the music I referenced, as that's pretty much a must for me. Have you ever compared your 63 Pros with the 57's?

 

[mhardy6647]

First time I ever heard a pair of ESL-57s, the program material was Wish You Were Here - it's a flashbulb memory. That demo, long ago, was with solid state Quad electronics. Quad II amps is the place to be, though, I'd opine.

I use mine with push-pull EL84 amps; I think something like a Mac MC-225 or even a Marantz 8B would be nice, too (although one would have to be a bit careful never to arc the panels on '57s).

 

[sealy]

By playing rock on Quads, your looking for trouble. One good transient and poof, they're toast!

 

[JohnVF]

By playing rock on Quads, your looking for trouble. One good transient and poof, they're toast!

That does not seem to be the case on the later 63s, the USA Monitor and PRO. They were built to handle some power. I think a lot of the talk about this stuff was based on the 57s inability to handle power and the early '63s tendency to over-protect themselves by shorting their inputs at the least sign of trouble. But I can only speak from experience with a totally rebuilt pair of ESL-63pro. It was mentioned in a review of the USA Monitor, though. They had them hooked to a pretty big amp. Heck, I ran mine on a 400wpc amp, though it was being under-driven by a passive pre and obviously not showing them anywhere near that. Either way, the later ones will protect themselves. They'll lock down on the amp, and if it can take it, all is well. Even then, that has never happened on mine. I don't listen at flea levels, and they've never sent my amp into protection. The later versions present a kinder 'short' to the amp.

There's a lot of misconceptions about these speakers, I think mainly due to the variation over the years. What will hurt some, others thrive on.

In fact, most classical music has bigger dynamic swings than rock, which tends to be compressed to some degree. The biggest scare I got with mine was a Mahler crescendo, not because I thought the speakers or amp would break, but because the transient on SACD was so quick from quiet to loud, and so adeptly handled by the speakers that it scared the crap out of me, as I was paying attention to something else. Even the cat jumped up and left. Speakers were fine.

As for 57s, the only 'pair' I've spent any time with was a stacked quad of them, two to a side, custom built by Radio People out of, I think, Hong Kong. So I can't comment as it wouldn't be a fair comparison, apples and oranges.

 

[similost]

I've heard a couple of heavy tunes on some quads.. While it sounded good, I know they wouldn't hold up to my abuse when I hear a song I like... and I just didn't think they had it all there to really reproduce the song like it should have been..

For good heavy rock tunes, I find it hard to find anything much better than horns with big woofers.. a nice balanced horn two way system..

It's all in personal preferences though...

as an afterthought, you don't see bands playing on stage with electrostats, but you do see big horns and big woofers on stage... just something to think about..

 

[Erocka2000]

With regards to playing rock music, for me it's less about playing loud, more about playing accurate. For example, at the chorus section of Us and Them, will the Quads just mush all the sound together or are they able to handle a swing that has multiple instruments hitting at the same time?

I can't really play music that loud in my Brooklyn apartment, as my neighbors would probably want to kill me. The DeVores I have are perfect in this regard. I'm looking at Quads because researching them is essentially what got me into this crazy hobby of ours.

 

[mhardy6647]

You might want to try Altec theatre horns or Duplexes with good, phase-accurate XOs...
Boy howdy, my 604Es get the "microdynamics" and "inner detail" stuff right, in spades.
(as do the 57s, although rather more politely)

 

[JohnVF]

as an afterthought, you don't see bands playing on stage with electrostats, but you do see big horns and big woofers on stage... just something to think about..

And you don't see sound reinforcement rigs being used for monitoring recordings, which is what my 63s were (location monitors for recording classical music, contracted through Quad by Philips). Horses for courses. They're capable of a subtlety that many speakers lack, but can exhibit a big sound within reason. And you're right, they aren't the right speakers for your taste, and some others. But if one's taste aligns with what they do, few if any speakers can touch them. Radiohead is certainly doable on Quads. I know of at least one horn guy that, when faced with needing to downsize, went with ESLs. They have some similarities in presentation (and some obvious differences).

I wouldn't mind Altec 604s, though...I just don't want their size. The Quads are big enough, especially on their stands.

 

[Erocka2000]

Yeah, not sure Altec Theatre Horns lend themselves to Brooklyn apartments. These would be a secondary speaker to my DeVores, so if I'm going to get anything, it's going to be Quads.

 

[Tom Brennan]

If you want live Pop concert levels you won't get it with Quads. But I think you can get satisfactory levels. I used to use big horn speakers and now I'm doing fine with Martin Logan electrostats and Monitor Audio "mini monitors" with chinless 4" woofers. I've heard Rock and Roll reproduced to my satisfaction from Quads, both 57s and 63s. Depends on what it takes to satisfy you and only you know what that is.

Given how good John VF's system sounds (absolutely top shelf) I'd have no hesitation about Quad 63s or the modern Quads based on the 63s. My opinions you understand.

Another thing to keep in mind is the amazing clarity of the Quads and the ability of that kind of clarity to give life to music at low levels.

 

[mhardy6647]

...They have some similarities in presentation (and some obvious differences).

I wouldn't mind Altec 604s, though...I just don't want their size. The Quads are big enough, especially on their stands.

They do indeed. That's why there's a pair of 604s and a pair of ESL-57s in the living room at my house.

Now... if you don't require them to do bass, it is certainly possible to use 604s in smaller cabinets (did you ever notice how they were used as bridge monitors in some old studios?) ore even (!) on open baffles...

http://members.myactv.net/~je2a3/open.htm

The JE OBs are about 57-sized... just sayin'...

http://members.myactv.net/~je2a3/Dingsys1.jpg

 

[tubeornotube]

As you know Quad 57's are not a good load for most SS amps though of the amps you have the 303 is the obvious choice..That amp was developed for use with the 57's..Although if you like Floyd I wouldn't play 'Time" too loud..The chiming clocks may sends sparks flying...literally...
I use a pair of VTL TT-25's AKA Tiny Triodes with mine and it is the best I have heard from 57's..
The Quads will play any type of music and if don't listen loud you will be OK..I listen to the same stuff..Just be careful with the volume control..

Matt..tubeornotube

BTW what vintage are your 57's? Mine are later production from 1976..

 

[mhardy6647]

a favorite Quad ESL-57 moment...

source: http://www.onethingaudio.net/FOR/QUA/57/9512-QUA-57-PIC-CON.htm

 

[mhardy6647]

...
As for 57s, the only 'pair' I've spent any time with was a stacked quad of them, two to a side, custom built by Radio People out of, I think, Hong Kong. So I can't comment as it wouldn't be a fair comparison, apples and oranges.

John, strictly FYI... "The Radio People" were from Kowloon, not Hong Kong ;-)
EDIT: d'oh - they were in both places. Jeepers, it's a terrible thing to lose one's mind!

 

[JohnVF]

John, strictly FYI... "The Radio People" were from Kowloon, not Hong Kong ;-)
EDIT: d'oh - they were in both places. Jeepers, it's a terrible thing to lose one's mind!

What is that a picture from? The stacked Quads I listened to were just beautiful. They were in a mid-century, almost crafstman-era looking frame, looking more like one speaker than one on top of another.

 

[Nat]

Looking for the picture, I suddenly wondered what MRH's new avatar (or whatever that picture is by the name) is of. New listening room? Looks very nice.

 

[mhardy6647]

What is that a picture from? The stacked Quads I listened to were just beautiful. They were in a mid-century, almost crafstman-era looking frame, looking more like one speaker than one on top of another.

Some Radio People-crafted Wharfedales I found at... y'know... my favorite local emporium for such things. They weren't really all that (as they say).

Looking for the picture, I suddenly wondered what MRH's new avatar (or whatever that picture is by the name) is of. New listening room? Looks very nice.

maybe...

Further details as events warrant.