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LFD, Ayre, Heed, Sonneteer

T

TMock

New Member
Can anyone compare two or more of the following amps:
  • LFD Zero LE MK.IV
  • Ayre Ax-7e
  • Heed Obelisk SI MK.II (with XS power supply)
  • Sonneteer Alabaster (which I hear has recently been tweaked)

The LFD and Ayre can be had used for slightly more than the new price of the Sonneteer. The Heed can be had used for slightly less.
 
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I have not heard them all nor have I heard those which I have heard in a way that I can compare them as you have asked for. The Alabaster and LFD are clearly better than the very good Heed, and I've only listened to Ayre amplification a while back in a store that was using it with Magnepan and Vandersteen speakers...heck I don't even remember which Ayre I listened to.

Could you tell us how you intend to use the amp. What speakers will you drive and what source will you use? Are your music tastes eccelctic or more specific?
 
Thanks for the reply, Art. I'm being vague partly because the rest of the system isn't set. It's my first audiophile setup, so I'm starting from scratch. I live in Manhattan with tons of audiophile shops, so I'm hoping to get out and try a few things, but my job doesn't leave me much time.

Since this is my first system, I can't give any helpful references to past gear, but I place a premium on timbre and musicality (PRaT, if you want) in my listening. Typical listening levels will be moderate. My listening is fairly eclectic: classical, jazz, folk, country, bluegrass, rock, funk, r&b, and a little hip hop.

Here's what I'm thinking so far. For now, the system will be simple. Digital source > integrated amp > monitor speakers. I'd like to add a Well Tempered turntable and a phone stage to the mix at some point, but that won't happen for a while.

The digital source will be an Oppo BDP-105--a highly competent jack of all trades source is what I need right now. I'm looking at speakers like the Harbeth P3esr, Fritz Rev5, or Dynaudio Excite X12. (My ideal speaker would be the Devore 3xl, but I don't have the scratch for a new pair, and used ones don't show up often.)

My amp list is all over the map, but what they have in common is a reputation for accurate timbre, rhythmic excellence, and lack of digital harshness. The LFD is supposed to be especially SET-like, which is definitely appealing.
 
The LFD's are amazing amps. Likely among the best sounding SS amps I have heard. Truly sensational.

Also shockingly good, for much less money are the Exposure S2's. I had a chance to live with a 3010S2 recently, and it would take a LFD to replace it. Yes, they really are that good.
 
TMock said:
...I'm being vague partly because the rest of the system isn't set. It's my first audiophile setup, so I'm starting from scratch.
Click to expand...

As a general statement, I've found the following to be true to the point that it's almost become a mantra of mine:

Equipment sounds very different in different systems.


Whichever amp you purchase, in roughly the same hierarchy (opinions differ, but diligent research can cull the also-rans), can and will change dramatically in it's overall presentation in any given system. One amp sounds liquid-smooth here, and with a speaker/preamp/source/cable/room change, it may lean the opposite way. Been there many times.:yes:

This has happened to me over, and over, and over; as I change gear likely too often. I no longer EVER say something is bad. It may have sounded bad in a particular system, but without trying many different pieces of equipment with it, it is wrong to dismiss it (and slay it on the interweb).

Your system will morph. Sooner than later. Unless you are either extremely lucky or really don't care. Also, as a new audio geek you likely don't really know what sounds different and why. Your writing shows you understand what to listen for. Is that based on aural experiences or what you've read? If the later, most any decent system will sound great. Only after spending time with it and others, will you start to understand what you are missing or wanting more/less of.

I would argue that if one is putting together a '1st' system, one should purchase used gear that has already depreciated. I would also suggest staying with well-known/well-regarded gear that resells quickly and easily. Again, most '1st' systems last a short period before one either wants to move laterally, or climb the sonic ladder to different gear.

You can build your system around your amps if you want. It's more difficult, as your choice of speakers that really shine a one particular amp diminishes greatly. I'd suggest buying speakers first. Period. They tend to stick around a bit longer if you know what you are buying. At that point you can either bring multiple amps home to audition, or at least talk to people with the same speaker as they will likely have run though different amps/sources/preamps/cables in attempting to focus the system.

My two cents. Good luck!:thmbsp:

(sorry, no personal experience with any of the amps listed)
 
Afraid I'd rule out the P3ESR given the range of music you listen to, its a fantastic speaker with acoustic instruments and voices but I find it lacking in both drive and volume when it comes to rock and electronic music. I rarely use them for this kind of music as its not an all rounder in my opinion. The PMC DB1i is about the same price and a better bet if you want versatility and the ability to play back at decent volumes. The only other speaker I'd wholeheartedly recommend would be the vintage Epos ES11 or ES12, they can be picked up secondhand and given that are a true audiophile bargain. Thats not to say that the Fritz or Dynaudio are not worth looking at, I just haven't heard these designs, just recommending what I know so keep them both on your short list.
 
NumbDiver said:
As a general statement, I've found the following to be true to the point that it's almost become a mantra of mine:

Equipment sounds very different in different systems.


Whichever amp you purchase, in roughly the same hierarchy (opinions differ, but diligent research can cull the also-rans), can and will change dramatically in it's overall presentation in any given system. One amp sounds liquid-smooth here, and with a speaker/preamp/source/cable/room change, it may lean the opposite way. Been there many times.:yes:

This has happened to me over, and over, and over; as I change gear likely too often. I no longer EVER say something is bad. It may have sounded bad in a particular system, but without trying many different pieces of equipment with it, it is wrong to dismiss it (and slay it on the interweb).

Your system will morph. Sooner than later. Unless you are either extremely lucky or really don't care. Also, as a new audio geek you likely don't really know what sounds different and why. Your writing shows you understand what to listen for. Is that based on aural experiences or what you've read? If the later, most any decent system will sound great. Only after spending time with it and others, will you start to understand what you are missing or wanting more/less of.

I would argue that if one is putting together a '1st' system, one should purchase used gear that has already depreciated. I would also suggest staying with well-known/well-regarded gear that resells quickly and easily. Again, most '1st' systems last a short period before one either wants to move laterally, or climb the sonic ladder to different gear.

You can build your system around your amps if you want. It's more difficult, as your choice of speakers that really shine a one particular amp diminishes greatly. I'd suggest buying speakers first. Period. They tend to stick around a bit longer if you know what you are buying. At that point you can either bring multiple amps home to audition, or at least talk to people with the same speaker as they will likely have run though different amps/sources/preamps/cables in attempting to focus the system.

My two cents. Good luck!:thmbsp:

(sorry, no personal experience with any of the amps listed)
Click to expand...

Dang man...your two cents is really gold! Great post!:thmbsp:
 
Actually I wouldn't advise to buy speakers first or amp first. If you are putting together a system then think of it as a system and buy pieces that work well together.

I would only suggest buying used if you don't intend wasting a dealers time with demos, leading them to believe that you are in the market for new when you aren't. Other than that caveat, used can be a very good way to get in to the high end with less money. Buy used from a dealer and you may even get a short guarantee. Just a thought.

LFD is a classic match with Harbeth with many happy owners. Sonneteer matches up well with everything I've heard it with and I've owned two Sonneteer amps. Also consider Line Magnetic if you have any interest in tubes.
 
The most important thing will be establishing a good relationship with a dealer. Regardless of what some might tell you, there is no best or right way. There are lots of great options out there. The best and easiest way to put a system together is with the support of a knowledgable, helpful, dealer.
 
Bigerik said:
The most important thing will be establishing a good relationship with a dealer.
Click to expand...

That is the key to having success either in the new or used market. Establishing a good rapport and lasting relationship with a good dealer will pay off in great results.
 
Thanks very much to everyone for the feedback! Lots of helpful stuff here. I haven't abandoned the conversation--just got slammed at work. To be continued...
 
Art K. said:
Actually I wouldn't advise to buy speakers first or amp first. If you are putting together a system then think of it as a system and buy pieces that work well together.
Click to expand...

This is better advice than mine. :thmbsp::thmbsp::thmbsp:
Start out of the gate with pieces known to work well together, and are voiced in a way YOU like (not the salesman, or an AKer).

I've spent so much time over the years tweaking things they way I want them, that I forget a guy/gal could buy a complete system from the get-go that he already knows he/she enjoys.

I would argue that IF one needs to piece a system together, it's easier to do with speakers-first. But I agree you should try to buy the system as a "system".:yes:
 
Bigerik said:
The most important thing will be establishing a good relationship with a dealer. Regardless of what some might tell you, there is no best or right way. There are lots of great options out there. The best and easiest way to put a system together is with the support of a knowledgable, helpful, dealer.
Click to expand...

I am tempted to take your advice because I have had mixed results using trial and error in the used market but it seems like the dealers I want to deal with offer solutions starting in the $1-2k per component range which is a bit over my budget.
 
Mortsnets said:
I am tempted to take your advice because I have had mixed results using trial and error in the used market but it seems like the dealers I want to deal with offer solutions starting in the $1-2k per component range which is a bit over my budget.
Click to expand...

Usually, most dealers nowadays do offer better deals than just the asking price. And while you may get a piece that is a step down the food chain, the ability to try and test and match components correctly is worth it in the end.
 
I did it, resisted temptation (Audiogon) and saved up a little longer, asked my local dealer for advice and auditioned and purchased a demo Cayin A-50T integrated with very low hours, looks brand new and sounds great with my speakers.

Originially I asked the dealer about the Line Magnetic Mini 218 (3 watt SEP) which he also carries but he suggested I audition the more powerful Cayin (35w/Ch Ultra-linear Mode, 16w/Ch Triode) with my 90db 4Ohm speakers.
 
This is related to LFD, Ayre, Heed, Sonneteer in what way? Not that that is a problem but you may want to start another thread to give the Cayin it's proper attention.
 
Art K. said:
This is related to LFD, Ayre, Heed, Sonneteer in what way? Not that that is a problem but you may want to start another thread to give the Cayin it's proper attention.
Click to expand...

Oh, good point. I was focused on the advice to create a good relationship with a dealer.

But I can sort of tie it in: this dealer had an Alabaster and Heed Obelisk on consignment (not brands he carries) but they were a bit more expensive and no warranty.
 
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