Linn LP12-Am I missing something?

[Wilburchubs]

Am I the only one who doesnt think this is as fantastic as its made out to be?Ive had one for about 10 years,with an SME3009/Shure V15III,but havent used it since I got my Thorens TD125 with same arm/cart as the Linn(nearly 6 years ago) It sounds good,dont get me wrong,but certainly not upto the hype.Or is it me??:scratch2:

 

[JohnVF]

The issue I have with it is that Linn promoted it as if it was the only worthwhile turntable ever made, so there's this cult that's built around it that exists around what Ivor Tiefenbrun said about it, and it's merits are never actually debated, you just have to 'believe' that it's the best turntable that ever was and will be. I think it's a very good turntable... one among many great turntables.

 

[Laserdude]

There is a hype around this TT that IMO it do´s not deserve, if it where good it did not need all those "upgrades"

 

[gkimeng]

The Linn is a slightly better finished and grossly overhyped copy of the AR and Thorens tables. If I ever ran across one at a garage sale or thrift for the same price I could grab one of the other tables for I'd take it, but otherwise, not.

Your arm and cartridge, OTOH, both deserve every bit of their legendary reps.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

I agree. The LP-12 is a fine turntable but not the be all-end all of turntables. I think of it as an AR-XA or Thorens TD-150 engineered to the highest level of that technology. Ever tried to get one refurbished at a Linn dealer? Most want you to buy $4000 of upgrades. We sold our pair due to that attitude and the fact that they seldom got used. Our Thorens fleet and Technics fleet get used daily. I love Linn but just get a certain bad taste in my mouth at times.

 

[marc mc]

I don't think your missing anything I have little doubt that a well set up 125 will beat an LP12. I said that when I owned a 125 and had heard Linns many times. I think in the areas of pop and rock the LP12 has the edge. Thats the reason I own a TT2 for Rock and the VPI for everything else. The right tool is half the work.

The Keel for the LP12 made me laugh my Heybrook and your Thorens had that instead of stamped metal from the beginning. So we save the $3K

BTW the Alphason Sonata had a 22lb slab of steel suspended. I love that table.

Enjoy your vinyl.

marc mc

 

[thunderroad]

Well, I guess I'm in the minority here, but I really like my Linn! Mine is a very early model that has really never had any of the later updates. Since mine was built before Linn provided the arms, it is equipped with a very nice Denon arm and is currently running with a Benz Micro Gold MC cartridge. It can be a p.i.t.a. to get setup properly, but when it is on, it is one musical 'table. As you can probably tell, I enjoy it very much!

I also own a reissue AR Turntable, which I bought new back in '83(?) and have happily lived with since then. I bought mine w/ the AR arm, which is medocre, and have used my Shure V15 mk.V in it since it was new. I have also found this combination to be very musical as well, but I would like to evenually upgrade the arm.

The other high-quality 'table that I own is a recently acquired Thorens TD-126 mk.III, that came equipped w/ a very low hours Stanton cartridge. I believe it is a Stanton 681EEE, but I am not sure. Since I am still working this one up and fiddling around with cartridge alignment, tracking weight, etc., trying to get it to sound its best, the jury is still out on this one.

If I were to compare the three 'tables, I would definitely give the nod to the Linn as my preferred listening choice. But when you get to comparing turntables of this quality, you are really comparing subtleties and tastes in musical presentation. Then you throw in the differences between the MM and MC cartridges, the different phono stages each use, etc., you are really comparing apples, oranges, and pears. All three very good tastes, but each has their place.

So, I guess the bottom line is, I like all three and I happily listen to all three!

 

[dogscanskate]

The LP12 is a nice record player and I'm happy to own one. It took me 20 years to track it down for the right price and I have no regrets. The reason I bought one was that it was (at the time) the only deck I had heard that drew me into the music. It still does, that's all I ask for.

I also have a TD 150 as a refurbishing project and hope to have some fun with it too. It is the deck that Linn cloned, so historically, it makes me happy to have both.

 

[ehoove]

The Linn LP12 is a very nice table, but it has never really floated my boat. I compared a fairly stock one with a TD125 MKII, and felt it held an edge, but not by much. After an arm upgrade (SME3009) I thought the Thorens was the more involving musical table. IMHO
Regards,
Jim

 

[nailer]

Have never owned an LP12. Checked into one in 70s, but dealer's arrogance - it's a Linn or it's **** (not a quote but this was the jist) - turned me off forever. Given that, it's no doubt an excellent table given all those who are happy with their LP12. However, have heard tell many-a-time that a well set-up TD-125 is the equal of a no frills LP12. YMMV

 

[dogscanskate]

The issue I have with it is that Linn promoted it as if it was the only worthwhile turntable ever made, so there's this cult that's built around it that exists around what Ivor Tiefenbrun said about it, and it's merits are never actually debated, you just have to 'believe' that it's the best turntable that ever was and will be. I think it's a very good turntable... one among many great turntables.

I used to work in audio back in the days and all turntable manufacturers promoted their deck as the best whether it be Michell, Oracle, Goldmund...They promoted their product because they too wanted their market share. It was common practice.Tiefunbrun mastered the marketing aspect and had control over his dealers. Linn/Naim dealers had to abide by certain rules. Every piece of gear that was sold had to be tested/listened to before delivery. I wish all makers would follow that path.

I am not a fan of Linn the company nor am I a fan of Tiefenbrun but his LP 12 is what made Linn what it became.

Of all the decks on the market, everybody that manufactures a turntable claims it as a Linn beater. I think that speaks tons for the LP 12. Why do they always compare their product to the Lp 12? Why not the Heybrook, Pink Triangle, Oracle, VPI...? I wish they would choose another deck to pick on, there are so many great ones !

Who cares basically? It's just a record player, it spins!

 

[vinylkid58]

Well, I guess I'm in the minority here, but I really like my Linn!

Same here. Older LP12's are great for people who like to tinker and mod, but steer clear of all the Linn upgrade BS. You can build up a decent sounding deck without spending thousands, as there are lots of alternatives to Linn arms, sub-chassis and motor/power supplies.

I believe I have achieved champagne sound on a beer budget with my deck. My current setup consists of:

-Jelco SA-370H/Denon DL-103R with silver phono cable.
-Baltic Birch arm-board.
-Damped non-Cirkus sub-chassis.
-Valhalla PS mounted in external box with power switch etc.
-Top plate is flipped to move motor to 7:30 position.


Most of the Linn stuff is way overpriced IMHO. Not surprised people are turned off by dealers attitudes.

Jeff

 

[leepal]

Of all the decks on the market, everybody that manufactures a turntable claims it as a Linn beater. I think that speaks tons for the LP 12. Why do they always compare their product to the Lp 12? Why not the Heybrook, Pink Triangle, Oracle, VPI...? I wish they would choose another deck to pick on, there are so many great ones !

presumably because the Linn LP12 became so iconic that most people into hi-fi and in the market for a TT will have at least heard of it?

Whether it deserves that 'benchmark' status I really don't know as I've never heard one. I do think they look great though.

 

[JohnVF]

I used to work in audio back in the days and all turntable manufacturers promoted their deck as the best whether it be Michell, Oracle, Goldmund...They promoted their product because they too wanted their market share. It was common practice.Tiefunbrun mastered the marketing aspect and had control over his dealers. Linn/Naim dealers had to abide by certain rules. Every piece of gear that was sold had to be tested/listened to before delivery. I wish all makers would follow that path.

I am not a fan of Linn the company nor am I a fan of Tiefenbrun but his LP 12 is what made Linn what it became.

Of all the decks on the market, everybody that manufactures a turntable claims it as a Linn beater. I think that speaks tons for the LP 12. Why do they always compare their product to the Lp 12? Why not the Heybrook, Pink Triangle, Oracle, VPI...? I wish they would choose another deck to pick on, there are so many great ones !

Who cares basically? It's just a record player, it spins!

It's one thing to think your deck is the best, it's another to have an attitudge that the entire rest of the playing field is total crap and that your Ariston RD-11, I mean, Linn LP12, reinvented the wheel. I don't fault them at all for claiming to be the best. I just think the arrogance with which they proclaimed to be the best and that you're a dolt for considering anything else was a huge turnoff.

I think it's a fantastic turntable, but the endless upgrade options, the expense of them, and the attitude of the Linn dealers I've come across just soils what is a very sound product, for me at least. Would I own one if it came across for a good price? Absolutely, I'd love one but not for what they cost new. I briefly considered an early one that was on our Craigslist last week with what looked like a Grace 707 arm, just to have one because they look and sound good. And it would be nice to get one from a private seller and not a linn dealer. I don't at all dislike the product or those who use them, I just dislike the arrogance and snobbery that tends to surround it in the retail world.

 

[dogscanskate]

If you consider my post arrogant, maybe you have misinterpreted what I meant! I never said or claimed it was the best. If you look at many of my posts, the deck I most often suggest is Roksan, I do not recall ever having recommended buying a Linn nor any piece of my setup on this forum. I don't recommend my gear, it's too personal! The Ariston/Linn was a clone of a previous generation TD 150 (which it closely resembles, more so than the AR). It just happened to be the deck that did it for me. There were serious turntables back then as there are now. It would have been fun to have another deck that makers would be proud of beating as there are so many good ones, the Goldmund Studio comes to mind. It was a benchmark deck, as was the Oracle, Michel, Garrard 301/401, Heybrook, Roksan Xerxes, Thorens TD-124/125 and 150 for spawning many clones, Technics SP10, EMT tt's and many more. It's not my fault if industry insiders mentioned the Linn more than these decks. I wish they would have talked about their decks standing up to all these great machines, there were many a good one.

Most of my friends own decks from other manufacturers because they enjoy them more and they are wonderful machines, I could live with any one of them. Why do you think I talk of my deck as a record player? Simply because this is what it does and does it well. Many decks do this job very well, I'm just fortunate to own the one I hunted down for 20 years! I really don't care where the Linn is ranked (personally) as I just enjoy the records it plays. I'd love to apologize if I somehow ruffled some feathers, it was not my intention.

 

[thunderroad]

I think it's a fantastic turntable, but the endless upgrade options, the expense of them, and the attitude of the Linn dealers I've come across just soils what is a very sound product, for me at least. Would I own one if it came across for a good price? Absolutely, I'd love one but not for what they cost new. I briefly considered an early one that was on our Craigslist last week with what looked like a Grace 707 arm, just to have one because they look and sound good. And it would be nice to get one from a private seller and not a linn dealer. I don't at all dislike the product or those who use them, I just dislike the arrogance and snobbery that tends to surround it in the retail world.

JohnVF, I agree with you completely! There is much too much arrogance in the home audio field, be it dealers, or manufacturers, or even enthusiasts and this is especially true when it comes to Linn! I looked at and seriously considered buying a new Linn Lp-12 many years ago, but the dealer so turned me off with his arrogance that I bought my AR instead. (BTW, that dealer in no longer in business. Gee, I wonder why?!:scratch2 But, I did finally buy my Linn Lp-12 used several years ago and have been very pleased with it since then.

While I need another turntable like I need another hole in my head, I would have probably bitten on that early Linn w/ the Grace 707 arm. I especially like the early Linns for their quality, simplicity, no-nonsense, and no-gimmick design approach to making music. These were also built before Linn discovered the cash-cow of constant updates and upgrades to its products, so you don't feel like a fool for buying one. And that Grace 707 arm is a classic that I have always wanted to own. The LP-12 you saw sounds like it would have been a very nice combination w/ a high-compliance MM cartridge like a Audio-Technica AT150MLX or something similar.

In the end, it all comes down to what you like and if it puts a smile on your face. It should all be about audio and not attitude! Just like AK!

 

[Slowhead]

I'm fairly confident that I will never own a LP12. Not because it is infereior in any way compared to the heavy hitters. But, the way I got played at Linn dealers prior to the internet age. I felt like I bought a car and they laughed at me when I drove it off the lot. Opinions and lies are two different things.

 

[cmb3366]

I borrowed one to try in my system a while ago, it was a valhalla era deck with a RB-900 and Grado Sonata mounted. It sounded pretty darn good, and I could see what people like about them, and I can see why they are a benchmark table.

In the end, I found a table that was a better fit for my tastes, but I've got to say, there are no flies on the Linn.

 

[JohnVF]

If you consider my post arrogant, maybe you have misinterpreted what I meant! I never said or claimed it was the best. If you look at many of my posts, the deck I most often suggest is Roksan, I do not recall ever having recommended buying a Linn nor any piece of my setup on this forum. I don't recommend my gear, it's too personal! The Ariston/Linn was a clone of a previous generation TD 150 (which it closely resembles, more so than the AR). It just happened to be the deck that did it for me. There were serious turntables back then as there are now. It would have been fun to have another deck that makers would be proud of beating as there are so many good ones, the Goldmund Studio comes to mind. It was a benchmark deck, as was the Oracle, Michel, Garrard 301/401, Heybrook, Roksan Xerxes, Thorens TD-124/125 and 150 for spawning many clones, Technics SP10, EMT tt's and many more. It's not my fault if industry insiders mentioned the Linn more than these decks. I wish they would have talked about their decks standing up to all these great machines, there were many a good one.

Most of my friends own decks from other manufacturers because they enjoy them more and they are wonderful machines, I could live with any one of them. Why do you think I talk of my deck as a record player? Simply because this is what it does and does it well. Many decks do this job very well, I'm just fortunate to own the one I hunted down for 20 years! I really don't care where the Linn is ranked (personally) as I just enjoy the records it plays. I'd love to apologize if I somehow ruffled some feathers, it was not my intention.

I didn't take your post as arrogant at all, any of my references to arrogance and the Linn was to audio dealers I've encountered, apologies if my replies seemed like an attack or anything. Conversations like this are much easier in person. I'm actually very interested in your viewpoint, as you have a lot more context for the Linn than I do, owning one and having experience with so many other tables.

 

[rccc]

Many years ago a friend and I set up an lp 12 next to an ar es1. It was fun when our audio buddies couldnt hear a difference when blind listening and preferences, when they didnt know what was playing was almost evenly split with a small bias towards the ar. What was really funny was when we put a DD technics in the mix and it was almost always preffered by what were for the most part belt drive purists.