Listening with my ears - and figuring stuff out...

[bimasta]

The picture from my OP was just showing what I was working through at that time - A/B ing both sets of speakers

Okay, all is forgiven. But keep in mind that having two sets of speakers in the room, one disconnected, actually distorted the test you were trying to conduct.

It's the standard modus operandi in the "High End Salons": only one pair of speakers in the listening room. To compare a second pair, they move the first pair out — even if it's they're $100K towers and need four guys to move them. Even your (and my) smaller real world speakers have that distorting effect.

I know it's a hassle and practicality rules. I have two pairs of unused speakers in my listening room because I have no other space to store them — and they have 6 X 12" woofers. Those woofers are designed to vibrate, even if it's parasitic vibration. They're like "acoustic room treatments" that I don't want, reducing the impact of the bass that I do want. I turn them to face the wall, and I hope that helps a bit — but an extra room would be a lot better...

 

[Two Steps]

It's mind blowing the amount of science, geometry, algebra and sound wave science that goes in to this stuff.

My math and science understanding is challenged when just trying to set up an equilateral triangle Let alone room treatments, parasitic vibrations, and components synergy/technology.

 

[bimasta]

It's mind blowing the amount of science, geometry, algebra and sound wave science that goes in to this stuff.

Yeah, and all that matters is "Does it sound great?"

My main interest on AK is the Analogue section, and some very earnest noobs post endlessly complicated questions because they've researched all this stuff about high-mass, low-mass, high-compliance, low-compliance, VTA, SRA, VTF, anti-skate, impedance, capacitance and on and on — they're really trying, they're hopelessly confused, they're having panic attacks — no wonder people take drugs when listening to music!

Like everyone, I took Math and Physics in high school — I even got A's — then I went home and watched The Three Stooges. I think I got them all confused into a messed-up algebraic slapstick chaos...

 

[luddite]

I like the list of gear you've got there. I also like the idea that you can get very different output from various combinations of it.
Bear in mind that the same variation is found in source recordings. Recordings over the years have been done so differently, and formatted so differently, that you might find that certain ones benefit from one system, while others benefit from another setup. It's our own ears or hearing that determines what sounds right, and there have been many times when I've preferred the sound of a great performance using a "lesser" system, because of the overbright turnout from a "better" system. That's why I once made a speaker switch for a six pairs. They all offered something different, but good.

 

[Mariolmb]

QUOTE="Two Steps, post: 10465386, member: 224342"]View attachment 909352

Hey all!

This post is just an effort for me to process through some stuff and share my thoughts. I am 31 and a newby to the whole hifi thing. I wasn't around during the hey day of audio, so I'm just learning and listening as I go; using this forum as a barometer of sorts.

I've been running a Marantz 2230 as a pre with a McIntosh MC250 as a power amp, through a pair of Klipsch Quartets.

In my bedroom I have a Sansui 661 powering a pair of EPI 100's.

All electronics have been refreshed and the 100's have been re-capped and foamed. All audio comes from Spotify Premium through Chromecast audio.

What's interesting is, like em or hate em, the big ol' horn loaded 3-way w/ passive radiator Klipsch's are 'supposed to' be a superior speaker than the oldy but goody 2 way acoustic suspension EPI, but I've found the EPI sounds clearer and more realistic. I always hear guys say horns sound 'honky' like you've cupped your hands around your mouth, but out of context, it's hard to tell. When playing the same content through both speakers back to back, the difference is night and day. The Quartets sound fantastic with today's pop music and more electronic stuff, but really sound congested in the mids and vocals suffer on sweeter music such as jazz and singer songwriter stuff. Also, as prefaced, the vocals sound like they are in a tunnel when directly comparing them to the EPI's. Not a dig, just an observation while directly comparing the two. It wasn't noticeable when playing with no other reference point.

Also interesting is the electronics side for me. Again, on paper the 2230 and MC250 is supposed to be the bee's knees. But the synergy between the EPI's and the Sansui is something special for me.

I get caught up on all the ideology stuff, but at the end of the day, the simple 661 and 100's sound best to me. The sound is more clear and transparent vs the warm smokey and subdued sound of the 2230. Too bad it's not nearly as pretty as the Marantz and McIntosh pair.

I do wish that the Sansui had a power amp in feature (or whatever it's technically called) like the Marantz does. Because I 'think' the 661 would benefit from a larger power amp section while keeping the tone of the more clear and precise preamp of the 661. I guess that's where the 771 & 881 come in power wise.

Is it heresy (no pun intended) to run EPI 100's in a large 30' x 24' room? I've only had floor standers in here and don't know the correct style of placement for listening. I know your supposed to make an equilateral triangle and I can do that. It'll be aroun 9' apart and I'll be 9' away while listening. Is that qualified as near field or is it just listening like the were intended?[/QUOTE]

Hello, about your Klipsch, my 2 cents:

Your room: ; look OK, at least for me.
Your electronics: seem OK, at least for me
Your speakers: see my note, but global should be OK.
WAF: we all have one, so it's OK for me.

So what's not OK.

Placement or mismatch of equipment or defective equipment.

But the mismatch will be discover after you will know the placement is not at best level.

So placement: Try the "Sumiko placement", it's the best I found, when the triangular one seem to not work.
And the more I work with it, the less I work with triangular one anymore.
Don't be too angular about the long wall, it will work on short wall either, even if not the best.
From my own perspective, I found this placement rules, the best one for an normal room. For the look and for the music you listen to.
Just work with what is the final version of the room, the rest discard it of the room... try your best to follow instruction.

About the song of Jennifer Warnes, BOTRH just google it, you will find it, the other CD, the test record, don't worry, just use another one, it's just a distribution between high and low, left and right, any sample or test CD will do the same job.

Notes: Klipsch: I never had those one, so no experience. But I had for an long period the original Klipsch Heresy. Completely recap, and I could say I really enjoy it, no listening fatigue. Sold them not because I unlike it, just because go upper side of the Woofer... 15"... lot's better then 12"
...Defective equipment...
If you had fatigue, it just because they are unbalance in the med-high area. The recap will do good job about that. The reason is that the punch coming from the cap to the woofer is not there, but the horn keep his own punch, so your level to listen is too high, your high are strong and your base are anaemic, so fatigue of the head and ears.
Don't know if those are like the Heresy, but your crossover should be redone if more then 20 years, and the for me, my Heresy cross over need to be adjust and match with the room.
If you google, you will find Klipsch Audio Community site, and you'll get your answer about your speakers there, if you ask.

After all that, you will be ready to discard or keep, as you like or dislike, but for my part, those old Klipsch are keeper, if they are at their best level.

Thanks

Mario

N.B: My room is just 24 X 22, but had a 3' step to divide it, an I found a good placement. So you can see how Efficient this method could be.

 

[Drum]

First pair of speakers I bought were the EPI 100's back in 1979. Great speakers. I also had a Sansui receiver -331. I did find that a little underpowered, but the 661 should have enough beans. If you like the sound (I sure did) then stick with it. What sounds good to you is what matters. I find the klipsch sound very entertaining at first but ultimately fatiguing.

Since the vast majority of a systems sound characteristics come from the speakers you could keep the EPI's and get a bigger Sansui amp.