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Looking for a 'Belle'

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Dr.K

New Member
A stupid question. What is the real name of the Klipsh speaker they call "Belle"? I've heard it makes a great center speaker in combination with Khorns and I'm wanting to give it a try. Second stupid question. How do you hook up a center speaker? I have a McIntosh MC275 amp and a C2200 preamp. Would I need to get another power amp for the center speaker?

I love my Khorns/Mac system...but it just seems like there is a little thin spot that the center speaker can fill and I had read a long time ago how having a ''belle" in the middle really filled things out.

I keep thinking I'm done, but this idea is bugging me.
 
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Dr. K.

The name of the speaker is the "Belle Klipsch", which was named after Paul Kkipsch's wife.

To use as a center channel, you need to have a monural output from the preamp which then is fed to the power amplifier. This allows you to control the level of the center speaker in relation to the other two flanking speakers.

Bob Moers
 
thanks Bob, so would I need another amp? My MC275 only is set up with outputs for R and L speakers. Might be letting this idea go if it looks like it is going to cost a lot of moola.
 
Dr. K.

Yes, that is correct. You would need a second power amplifier to operate the center channel speaker.

As information, the benefits of using a bridged center speaker were recognized by Steinberg and Snow (Bell Telephone Laboratories) in a paper entitled "Symposium on Auditory Perspective" published in 1934 by the American Institue of Electrical Engineers. These ideas were re-presented by Mr. Klipsch in 1958.

Bob Moers
 
Just have faith and a little patience - center Belles are out there and can be found. When I located mine, it was a pretty happy day. :banana:

As far as a center channel goes, yes - you will need another amp. Keep in mind, however, that unless you are running HT, a center speaker for fill-in music duty does not need to be run by a primo amp necessarily.

Also, something to keep in mind is that you can make your own derived center channel box - to sum the signals from your L and right channels. You may want to do a search in the Klipsch forum because I know the plans for one are floating around somewhere............. I run a 7.1 preamp for my center (in addition to my tube two-channel preamp) so I never needed one.

Good luck.
 
Matching the color of the Belle also proves to be a challenge, but you could always reveneer if you wanted to.
 
Carl G said:
Just have faith and a little patience - center Belles are out there and can be found. When I located mine, it was a pretty happy day. :banana:

As far as a center channel goes, yes - you will need another amp. Keep in mind, however, that unless you are running HT, a center speaker for fill-in music duty does not need to be run by a primo amp necessarily.

Also, something to keep in mind is that you can make your own derived center channel box - to sum the signals from your L and right channels. You may want to do a search in the Klipsch forum because I know the plans for one are floating around somewhere............. I run a 7.1 preamp for my center (in addition to my tube two-channel preamp) so I never needed one.

Good luck.
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Thank you for your help. I also have Khorns modified with the ALK universal crossovers and Trachorns. Do you feel adding the 'center Belle' made a significant improvement? Truthfully, I've been happy with the sound I've got right now...but then I heard about this center channel Belle, and now the upgrade fever is starting again. So much fun.
 
There is a method to run a center speaker with a single stereo amp. It's not the best, but it will work until you find a mono amp. You simply run the center through two resistors (at least 10W) one to the + side of the left and right speaker. If you have a stereo amp with impedance taps, try 6.8 Ohms to each impedance tap of lower impedance that the one you are using. That is, if you have your left and right speaker connected to the 8 Ohm taps, connect a 6.8 Ohm 10W resistor from the center speaker to each 4 Ohm tap. I did this for a while and it works quite well for a temperary rig.

BTW: I was using 3 Belles, which is the same sensitivity as 2 Khorns with a center Belle.

I just look at the Mcintosh forum and see that you have an Mc275. The resistor scheme should work fine with that amp. I did it with an Mc250 and later with an Mc7150.

AL K.
 
BobMoers said:
Dr. K.

Yes, that is correct. You would need a second power amplifier to operate the center channel speaker.

As information, the benefits of using a bridged center speaker were recognized by Steinberg and Snow (Bell Telephone Laboratories) in a paper entitled "Symposium on Auditory Perspective" published in 1934 by the American Institue of Electrical Engineers. These ideas were re-presented by Mr. Klipsch in 1958.

Bob Moers
Click to expand...


Bob Moers--

Do I recognize your name? Years ago, were you an executive at Klipsch & Associates?
 
Dr.K said:
Thank you for your help. I also have Khorns modified with the ALK universal crossovers and Trachorns. Do you feel adding the 'center Belle' made a significant improvement? Truthfully, I've been happy with the sound I've got right now...but then I heard about this center channel Belle, and now the upgrade fever is starting again. So much fun.
Click to expand...

Personally, I do not think a center Belle makes a significant improvement for music, unless I am running discrete music (SACD or DVD Audio) or movies.

My modded Khorns are 22 feet apart, and for two-channel - I usually run just the Khorns up front and Belles in the rear (with a rear shadowed two-channel). My imaging is excellent with Trachorns (and with baby cheek tweeters), and I rarely use the center Belle for most music.

On the other hand, my center Belle is available to fill in, even with vinyl and CDs - if I want it. if you can find one, its nice to also have for discrete music and movies.

Its all about flexibility in your system.
 
Dr.K said:
Thank you for your help. I also have Khorns modified with the ALK universal crossovers and Trachorns. Do you feel adding the 'center Belle' made a significant improvement? Truthfully, I've been happy with the sound I've got right now...but then I heard about this center channel Belle, and now the upgrade fever is starting again. So much fun.
Click to expand...

Hey, another Trachorn owner!!! Love the Trachorns!! Are you running K55s, and if so, what model? Or are you running different drivers altogether? Are you still running K77s? I've played around with Beyma CP25s and currently have the Eminence drivers like Bob Crites offers (but in the baby cheeks version)

I started out running K55Vs with my Trachorns and was 95% pleased (until I reached uber volume). I've also run various Altecs, however, and lately have been playing around with different drivers for the Trachorns. I started out with Altec 8 series with symbiotik dias, and that was a step backwards. Last week, I threw on a nice pair of aluminum Altec 806As onto the Trachorns. A bit smoother than the K55s. Those may be my final stop, driver-wise, for the Trachorns. :music:

But, still more listening to do.
 
Dr.K said:
I keep thinking I'm done
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I think you could perhaps use a LaScala also although a LaScala isn't near as pretty as a Belle might be. You could probably get a pair of LaScalals cheaper than a pair of Belle's to boot. If you didn't like the net effect you'd not be out as much.

If you keep thinking about upgrading things (yes you guys, you're going to hear it again :D ) you can look into swapping out your Khorns for PWK's final project, the "Klipschorn Jubilee"

That of course doesn't answer your center channel issue however with their extra horsepower available you might not feel the need for a center.

I'll let you inquire further if you want to know more about the Jubilees. I don't want to put these other guys to sleep...say Al K... you listening? :D :D :D :D
 
DrK, I would possibly be interested in a Belle for a center chanel also. I am looking for a walnut oiled Belle. If you are looking for a pair of walnut oiled Belles and a pair comes along maybe we could split the pair. PDG

EDIT: Mark Deneen, The owner of Juicy Music makes a device for the center chanel, I am not sure if it is on his website.
 
gonzp said:
DrK, I would possibly be interested in a Belle for a center chanel also. I am looking for a walnut oiled Belle. If you are looking for a pair of walnut oiled Belles and a pair comes along maybe we could split the pair. PDG

EDIT: Mark Deneen, The owner of Juicy Music makes a device for the center chanel, I am not sure if it is on his website.
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Hey that sounds like a great idea. My Khorns are also oiled walnut, so we are looking for the same speaker. Frankly, I'm still not sure what exactly a Belle is. There isn't such a speaker on the Klipsch product web page...I've been assuming it is a Cornwall, but I could be wrong. Wouldn't want to get a pair of speakers that weren't what you were thinking of.
 
What's the range one should expect to pay for a decent pair? I have Khorns but never heard a pair of Belles.

Good luck also in the pursuit of a single Belle. May take a little ehile but one will show up.

Thanks,

Barry
 
They turn up now and then on eBay, but I don't think I've seen them more than once or twice a year. Prices approach Khorn prices for nice cosmetic condition and all original drivers.
 
Fisherdude said:
They turn up now and then on eBay, but I don't think I've seen them more than once or twice a year. Prices approach Khorn prices for nice cosmetic condition and all original drivers.
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Dr. K, if you can handle the asthetics of a center LaScala, you could get the same sound for a lot less $$$.
 
Dr.K said:
Hey that sounds like a great idea. My Khorns are also oiled walnut, so we are looking for the same speaker. Frankly, I'm still not sure what exactly a Belle is. There isn't such a speaker on the Klipsch product web page...I've been assuming it is a Cornwall, but I could be wrong. Wouldn't want to get a pair of speakers that weren't what you were thinking of.
Click to expand...

Yup, Filmboydoug posted the link to a pic of a Belle that looks like my Belles in the rear.

You want a Belle, if possible, instead of a Cornwall to go with your Khorns. Klipsch did make a vertical Cornwall, which is a Cornwall with the mid and tweeter horns "turned" so that you can lay it on its side - as a center. I used a vertical Cornwall as a center for awhile, and they make nice centers also. But, using a Belle for a center is a better match to Khorns because that way you have three fully horn-loaded speakers across the front (Corns have a different bass sound) and the Belle has a better mid horn than the Cornwall.
 
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