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Looking For A Turntable Upgrade

M

mccourt19

New Member
Hey all,

I've been stuck with an Audio Technica LP-60 which, for lack of a better word, is terrible. So I've been looking for an upgrade for awhile, but since I'm a poor college student it's been tough. However, I just got my tax return back so it's time to buy myself a present.

So I'm looking for a turntable in the $300-400 range to pair with my McIntosh MA-5100 integrated amp. I've wanted a pro-ject debut iii for awhile, but I figured I'd do my due diligence before I pulled that trigger.

I've been searching around here and have seen people suggest the Denon DP-300F which is intriguing. Obviously the automatic start and return is a perk, but I'm not all that interested in trading quality for convenience if it is worse than the Pro-ject.

I've also seen people suggest the Music Hall MMF 2.2 which is a bit out of my price range, but I could be convinced if it was worth it. I feel the same way about the Pro-Ject Carbon.

So basically I'm looking for a little advice here between these tables:
Pro-Ject Debut III
Pro-Ject Carbon
Denon DP-300F
Music Hall MMF 2.2
Rega P1

Any suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
 
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Save your money for college. Get a nice used table off Craigslist. There a ton of good used tables out there.

I know the AT is not much, but what exactly bugs you about it? I don't know if you can replace the cartridge, but if you can an AT95e would be a big help for a few $$.

For good used tables, something should be available? Post what you see and we can tell you about them.
 
Save your money for a rainy day. But if a little fun is needed, I had a Techincs Q202 in very good condition I bought for under $100 and it sounded good. No detectable wow & flutter, rumble or other issues. The tone arm was nothing to blow off either for the money.
 
BrocLuno said:
Save your money for college. Get a nice used table off Craigslist. There a ton of good used tables out there.

I know the AT is not much, but what exactly bugs you about it? I don't know if you can replace the cartridge, but if you can an AT95e would be a big help for a few $$.

For good used tables, something should be available? Post what you see and we can tell you about them.
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The big problem with the AT right now is that it's broken. The bass goes crazy when you play it at mid volume. I know it's not my amp/speakers since it does the same thing when using the turntable's built in pre-amp on my home theater system. I've never been a big fan of it in the first place.

The problem with going used is I wouldn't know what to look for. I'm not very well versed in turntable brands/models, especially old ones. I've never been one to search for used equipment unless I know what it is, like my McIntosh amp.
 
Definitely buy a good used table. The old saying "They don't make 'em like they used to" holds true for turntables. I run a '61 Empire 398. It is built like a tank and sounds like a dream.

However, I get the feeling that's probably a little more vintage than you'd like to go. I've got a late 80's Denon DP-23F that I used for years. Great table for the money. Fully automatic with electo-magnetically controlled anti-skate and tracking on the tonearm. I think you can pick up one of them used for under $100 if you shop around. Put a cheap cart on it like an Audio Technica AT3600 and you got a good quality, lo-buck vinyl slinger! You'll be surprised how good it'll sound. I've been playing around with this stuff for years. Just because it's cheap doesn't mean it's crap. Hi-Fi on the cheap is fun stuff! You've just got to learn what to look for. It's out there. Good Luck!
 
I was shopping the same as you are. I was going to do the Music Hall 2.2 if new, but went used instead. I went super cheap & invested time & effort to bring troubled TTs back to the land of the living. If I was willing to spend $100 or so, that likely wouldn't have been necessary. I can understand the appeal of new & trouble free tho....
 
Broken.......

mccourt19 said:
The big problem with the AT right now is that it's broken. The bass goes crazy when you play it at mid volume. I know it's not my amp/speakers since it does the same thing when using the turntable's built in pre-amp on my home theater system. I've never been a big fan of it in the first place.

The problem with going used is I wouldn't know what to look for. I'm not very well versed in turntable brands/models, especially old ones. I've never been one to search for used equipment unless I know what it is, like my McIntosh amp.
Click to expand...

Ok. I always wanted a super clean Harman Kardon T-60 or T-65. But, I am playing the Garrard 401, custom plinth, higher end tone arm game now.
 
I always tell folks to get out to the garage sales, estate sale and flea markets. There's a good chance you'll come across something very nice for very little with some patience and a little diligence. Plus, you're bound to find some other cool stuff while you're at it.
 
Sounds like the issue is mostly a lack of isolation. The bass going nuts issue is feedback. Getting the turntable further away from the speakers and/or putting it on something that will better isolate it from the sound they produce should help with that.
 
ScaleAutoArt said:
There is always the "Orbit"...due in May sometime.

http://www.uturnaudio.com/
Click to expand...

I'm holding out for this one as well.

The Rega RP1 though is a good unit. A record store near me has one for demoing used records on. It sounds good with a Rega cartridge at the end of the arm and it holds it's speed more than steady enough. It's light and it doesn't give you the confidence that it would survive a fall down the stairs but at the same time it's within your price bracket and performs as a turntable should.

This forum loves to champion used but new units aren't as terrible as they're made out to be. And they come with something very important that a used table from Craigslist or ebay does not. A warranty :thmbsp:
 
You could always become a subscriber here for $25 and buy a used vintage table on Barter Town. There are always several inexpensive ones for sale and most of them have been gone over by someone who knows what they're doing.
 
As a owner of a Music Hall MMF 2.2 for 2 years now, I am very happy with my purchase. No, it is not the world's best TT. It has been hassle and trouble free. I also own a Technics SL-25L linear track. It also has been trouble free.

Despite the Technics having a superior cartridge and stylus, the Music Hall just sounds better. I went through 3 vintage tables before finding one that was not a worn out piece of junk.

The Technics is on my bedroom system and listened to a few records on Sunday. Compared to the Music Hall, the best way to describe the difference is the Music Hall is full, warm and open sounding. By comparision the Technics is dull and muddy sounding, and I just do not get as involved in the music. The absolute best feature of my Music Hall is that it has absolutely no Inner Grove Distortion. The only TT I have owned that I can say that about.

When I bought the Music Hall it was hard to spend $400 plus for it, but it has been worth every penny. It has satisfied my desire to spin records again. So much so, I recently spent more than that for a VPI record cleaning machine, so the records sound like brand new. Just remember it is a manual TT, you are its servant not the other way around. But that can also be remedied if you desire.
 
If you can't allocate more than $1000 for a table, look at used market. You must get a NEW cartridge for it though. For more than $1000 there are some nice new tables you can get.
 
gadget73 said:
Sounds like the issue is mostly a lack of isolation. The bass going nuts issue is feedback. Getting the turntable further away from the speakers and/or putting it on something that will better isolate it from the sound they produce should help with that.
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I agree. Sort out your isolation problem to buy some time. Then, go on a hunt for a good used turntable. It may take a while, but your efforts will be awarded.

Subscribe to Vinylengine. Read about the different turntables available. Just about any of the Technics DD tables (1400, 1500, 1600, etc.) is a good pick. Trust your instincts. Cheap turntables are easy to spot. Solid turntables look solid. You should be able to find a good turntable for $80-$100. You might be able to find a bargain for much less. I found a Technics SL-1500 MKII in excellent shape at the thrift. It cost me $20.
 
Get a used Thorens. Great tables. Minimalist styling and simple. Works great with the Shure M91 family of carts. I bet you can be in business for $200 and have a table that belongs with that Mac.
 
DougMac said:
I agree. Sort out your isolation problem to buy some time. Then, go on a hunt for a good used turntable. It may take a while, but your efforts will be awarded.

Subscribe to Vinylengine. Read about the different turntables available. Just about any of the Technics DD tables (1400, 1500, 1600, etc.) is a good pick. Trust your instincts. Cheap turntables are easy to spot. Solid turntables look solid. You should be able to find a good turntable for $80-$100. You might be able to find a bargain for much less. I found a Technics SL-1500 MKII in excellent shape at the thrift. It cost me $20.
Click to expand...

If isolation is a problem, he needs to look for suspended table designs. I experienced feedback problem in my listening room. Currently I run PL-L1000, which is suspended. I tried to put SL-1200 on the same stand, and it was unusable there. But suspended TTs are not that easy to find either new or old. I do not know about any new suspended table below $3000.
 
Hm never considered isolation as the problem. I did move my speakers around so it could be rumbling my table. I'll look into it.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I know you can get some great stuff on the used market, but I don't know if I want to put up with the hassle of doing it. I went through that while looking for my McIntosh amp. That's why I was looking more toward an "easy" purchase with one of these newer ones.

Thanks for the feedback on the Rega and the Music Hall.
 
Having experienced a similar problem to what you described, isolation could certainly be the problem. That might largely solve things for you!

OTOH, I can't speak highly enough of the Thorens and AR tables that you can get for very little money. My experience is limited, for sure, but models like the Thorens TD 160 and the AR XA and XB's are so simple it's hard to go wrong. If the motor works, the bearing's okay, and the tonearm functions properly, you're good to go.
I briefly owned a Pro-Ject 1.2, an older version of their entry level table. Compared to my Thorens or AR it wasn't anywhere near the same class, even though it was in perfect shape. Heck, even my Technics SL20 blows it away.
For me, at least, one of the great appeals of turntables is how easy (and cheap) they can be to tweak and modify to turn entry level units into nice performers. There's a ton of info all over the net about how to achieve some great upgrades with little effort or cash.
 
FWIW, the Rega RP1 is comparable to the old P3 and is very decent for the money. And can be recommended if you want new in your budget range.
 
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