Looking for phono cartridge similar but better than VM540ML

[Ethan Pierce]

Hello all,
I am on the hunt for a new cart, the budget is $300 - $700. I have been using a Hana MH with an upgraded boron cantilever and micro-ridge stylus. Although, if I like the cart enough to sell the Hana then my budget would increase. The Hana sounds pretty awesome on my Rega RP6, tube preamp, Thiel CS2.4, and MC2205 amp. Very very laidback. Then I bought an Audio Technica VM540ML for my downstairs setup and really liked the channel separation and detail in the high end. So just for fun, I replaced my Hana with 540ML and I ended up really enjoying the sound! The depth isn't even as close to the Hana but overall it is a wonderful listening experience (at 1/4 the price).

My question is this, what other cartridges out there resemble the VM540ML sound signature and improve on it? For example, keep the highs but have clearer mids. I was looking at VM760SLC but am questioning the aluminum cantilever and stylus type vs the price tag. Micro Line tips seem to be the way to go. I've also heard good things about the AT150MLX but I can't find any in the US. I'm open to all suggestions that would be nice and bright! (maybe too bright for you haha).

 

[theflattire]

The only other ML I can think of is a Sumiko Amethyst.
I have a VM750SH and the Sumiko is on my list.

Was thinking about the Hana too.

 

[Ethan Pierce]

The only other ML I can think of is a Sumiko Amethyst.
I have a VM750SH and the Sumiko is on my list.

Was thinking about the Hana too.

Sumiko are both made by Excel, which is great but I'm looking for a something different right now. Nothing wrong with the Hana at all, super deep soundstage and detailed. I think if the rest of my gear wasn't vintage i would get more out of it. Tubes + vintage amp + warm cartridge is a bit too warm for my tastes.

 

[theflattire]

Sumiko are both made by Excel, which is great but I'm looking for a something different right now. Nothing wrong with the Hana at all, super deep soundstage and detailed. I think if the rest of my gear wasn't vintage i would get more out of it. Tubes + vintage amp + warm cartridge is a bit too warm for my tastes.

Try a 2M Black which is a Shibata. You get that 'famous' Ortofon top end.

Also I run all tubes except for the phono stage which is SS. That might help.

 

[Ethan Pierce]

Try a 2M Black which is a Shibata. You get that 'famous' Ortofon top end.

Also I run all tubes except for the phono stage which is SS. That might help.

I've hear some mixed things about the 2M black, and I've never hear dof the treble referred to as famous but it's worth looking into.

I am bidding on an AT150MLX on the auction site but there is unknown hours on it so any course I take is a gamble! I don't like that

 

[theflattire]

The 'knock' on the 2M line and Ortofon was that they are on the brighter side. I had a 2M Blue and it sounded fine to me, but I like ear piecing highs. When I switched to the VM750SH, there was an improvement overall but I didn't notice any kind of drop off on the high end.
I was considering the 2M Black since I had a Blue, but the AT was less expensive and also a Shibata so I went that way.
I'll probably get a 760SLC stylus if I don't go with an Amethyst.
I want to try a ML/LC.

 

[vinyldavid]

The Nagaoka MP-500 is better than a VM540ML. From Japan about $650. US price is about $1K. Lower compliance than VM540ML, it is not suitable for light tonearms. 3mv output vs 4mv from VM540ML.

I didn't find my MP500 to be better than even a VM95E. Warm, bloated, and undynamic. Yes, I was using it on a 18gm headshell in a 14gm arm.

AT's the way to go for MM nowadays.

 

[vinyldavid]

I find Audio Technica cartridges to be a touch bright, but most vinyl is quite dull, and if your system is geared towards making linear sources (IE, digital) sound correct, vinyl needs all the help it can get!

Maybe you should look at an Audio Technica ATOC9XSL-I know it's a touch over your budget at $750, but they're great carts for the money. One of the only options at that price point which has a fancy diamond. Otherwise I have had a couple friends buy the VM750SH and they've quite liked it.

I have an Audio Technica AT150MLX, AT150Sa, a NOS 150Sa replacement stylus, and VMN760SLC replacement stylus, so I should be good to go for a while in my tertiary rig.

 

[Decibel_116]

The VM760SLC is a fine cartridge. The special line contact diamond on the VM760SLC is the same one used on the ART9 only on an aluminum alloy cantilever (I currently own both of these). Personally, I prefer the VM760SLC over the VM540ML. YMMV.

 

[Ethan Pierce]

I find Audio Technica cartridges to be a touch bright, but most vinyl is quite dull, and if your system is geared towards making linear sources (IE, digital) sound correct, vinyl needs all the help it can get!

Maybe you should look at an Audio Technica ATOC9XSL-I know it's a touch over your budget at $750, but they're great carts for the money. One of the only options at that price point which has a fancy diamond. Otherwise I have had a couple friends buy the VM750SH and they've quite liked it.

I have an Audio Technica AT150MLX, AT150Sa, a NOS 150Sa replacement stylus, and VMN760SLC replacement stylus, so I should be good to go for a while in my tertiary rig.

Which of these "Audio Technica AT150MLX, AT150Sa, a NOS 150Sa replacement stylus, and VMN760SLC" has the deepest soundstage? Or which do you enjoy the most?

Do you feel like the aluminum cantilever of the vm760slc detracts from the sound at all?

 

[vinyldavid]

Which of these "Audio Technica AT150MLX, AT150Sa, a NOS 150Sa replacement stylus, and VMN760SLC" has the deepest soundstage? Or which do you enjoy the most?

Do you feel like the aluminum cantilever of the vm760slc detracts from the sound at all?

Well, like I said, the 150Sa and VMN760SLC are NOS, meaning they’re still sealed in the original packaging. I’ll cross the bridge of differences when I come to it, but, typically, most of the higher end Audio Technicas speak the same musical language.

Between the 150Sa and 150MLX, the MLX is definitely the winner, but near impossible to find nowadays. It’s a shame we’ve gotten away from boron cantilevers!

 

[Taketheflame]

I didn't find my MP500 to be better than even a VM95E. Warm, bloated, and undynamic. Yes, I was using it on a 18gm headshell in a 14gm arm.

AT's the way to go for MM nowadays.

I don't have experience with the MP-500, but if the compliance is similar to the MP-150 or MP-200, it needs a much lighter arm to do it's best, probably around 9 to 12g effective mass range.

To the OP - if you want to stick to microline and MM, maybe the VM740ML will offer some improvement with the better cartridge body? You're stuck with Shibata or line contact tips if you want to stick with AT and go with the higher up MM stylus assemblies.

 

[Ethan Pierce]

Well, like I said, the 150Sa and VMN760SLC are NOS, meaning they’re still sealed in the original packaging. I’ll cross the bridge of differences when I come to it, but, typically, most of the higher end Audio Technicas speak the same musical language.

Between the 150Sa and 150MLX, the MLX is definitely the winner, but near impossible to find nowadays. It’s a shame we’ve gotten away from boron cantilevers!

Agreed on the cantilever materials. I had a choice of sapphire or boron when getting my Hana needle upgraded. I chose sapphire but he did used boron instead. That was frustrating, but it was too late to do anything about it. Ever since then I've been wanting to hear sapphire. I've used ruby and thought it was very good, very focused but ultimately not the best cart for me.

 

[Hoytis]

Another vote for VM750SH. Love mine. Might give you more of that Hana depth.

 

[vinyldavid]

Agreed on the cantilever materials. I had a choice of sapphire or boron when getting my Hana needle upgraded. I chose sapphire but he did used boron instead. That was frustrating, but it was too late to do anything about it. Ever since then I've been wanting to hear sapphire. I've used ruby and thought it was very good, very focused but ultimately not the best cart for me.

Jeez, who did your cantilever swap?

I have Joseph Long/Groovetickler do all my work, and he glued a sapphire cantilever into the remaining hollow boron rod of my Denon DL-305 with a FG2 on the end of it.

After seeming that work, he’s the only person I’ll let work on my cartridges.



I’ve got a few more to send him, but haven’t gotten the money together for the upgrades I want!

I also have a SoundSmith The Voice with a sapphire cantilever and FG-S, but haven’t set it up properly yet.

 

[vinyldavid]

I don't have experience with the MP-500, but if the compliance is similar to the MP-150 or MP-200, it needs a much lighter arm to do it's best, probably around 9 to 12g effective mass range.

To the OP - if you want to stick to microline and MM, maybe the VM740ML will offer some improvement with the better cartridge body? You're stuck with Shibata or line contact tips if you want to stick with AT and go with the higher up MM stylus assemblies.

I tried the MP500 in my 11gm SME V as well. My thoughts on the cartridge were the same, and the internet braintrust said I should try it on a heavier arm, so I did. I gave it a go, and it didn’t wind up on my recommended list. I see what people like about them, though. A good many rigs can be tuned to sound good with them, I’m sure.

 

[Decibel_116]

Which of these "Audio Technica AT150MLX, AT150Sa, a NOS 150Sa replacement stylus, and VMN760SLC" has the deepest soundstage? Or which do you enjoy the most?

Do you feel like the aluminum cantilever of the vm760slc detracts from the sound at all?

No. Not even a little bit.

 

[Decibel_116]

Jeez, who did your cantilever swap?

I have Joseph Long/Groovetickler do all my work, and he glued a sapphire cantilever into the remaining hollow boron rod of my Denon DL-305 with a FG2 on the end of it.

After seeming that work, he’s the only person I’ll let work on my cartridges.

View attachment 2640514

I’ve got a few more to send him, but haven’t gotten the money together for the upgrades I want!

I also have a SoundSmith The Voice with a sapphire cantilever and FG-S, but haven’t set it up properly yet.

Joseph does outstanding work for sure. I am curious how the DL-305 sounds compared to the original stylus. I also have one of these that sounded phenomenal before I snapped the very fragile cantilever off one day.

 

[vinyldavid]

Joseph does outstanding work for sure. I am curious how the DL-305 sounds compared to the original stylus. I also have one of these that sounded phenomenal before I snapped the very fragile cantilever off one day.

I never got to hear the original 305, it came in a lot of stuff I bought already busted, and I had money to burn, as it cost $650 to get that done. I think it’s well worth the capital! It’s currently in me SME V, but might go elsewhere soon.

Compared to my reference Lyra Kleos, the Denon is a bit more laid back and warm sounding, but in a very pleasant way. It tracks exceptionally well at 1.25gm, and retrieves lots of detail without being harsh. Kind of like what I wanted the Nagaoka MP500 to sound like!

I’m currently using it with a Denon AU-340 SUT and a Graham Slee Era Gold V-both components known for neutrality.

 

[Taketheflame]

I tried the MP500 in my 11gm SME V as well. My thoughts on the cartridge were the same, and the internet braintrust said I should try it on a heavier arm, so I did. I gave it a go, and it didn’t wind up on my recommended list. I see what people like about them, though. A good many rigs can be tuned to sound good with them, I’m sure.

Fair enough - different strokes for different folks!