yoder
Active Member
If you care to read it, sorry in advance for my long, rambling post.
I had pretty much sold all my tube gear and decided to try some tubes again for music to add some of the tube warmth I had previously heard.
I am pretty happy with my current system and am continually impressed/pleased with it, but thought it would be nice to add, for lack of a more accurate description in my mind, a tube option with more warmth.
I do not hear differences between various components to the nth degree like some posts or reviews I read. I previously thought that it was my system. That is a factor, but I think it’s also my ears (average?), memory, and brain. Speakers are usually easy, but I really need an A/B switch for detailed comparison. Amplifiers I can discern differences most of the time. Sources I haven’t noticed big differences, though the Vault was a noticeable improvement for streaming. I’m trying to see if based on my experience there are any recommendations for a tube setup, or maybe I should stick with what I have, which I plan to use regardless as my primary setup for TV and background music listening.
My current setup is:
Bluesound Vault 2i source currently primarily as streamer
NAD M51 as DAC and pre-amp
Bryston 3B NRB amplifier
KEF 107 speakers
Rythmik F12 subwoofer
Adequate/audiophile grade interconnects, speaker cables, power conditioner, and power cables.
I started changing up my system last year going down a path to upgrade amplification. I then decided speakers were the limitation and have been very happy with the KEF 107’s for 6 months now. I am settled there.
When I got the 107’s I had ModWright LS100 and KWA150. These were very good, but I decided were more than I needed and decided to free up some cash. I did not have them to do an A/B comparison. I know the ModWrights are superior, but the NAD and Bryston get me about 90% there for my system and ears. Instead of saying detailed, they were so transparent that vocals were very clear and realistic. I notice this more with movies/TV where there is more of a veil with the Bryston. The difference is probably across the board, though I think the Bryston holds its own in bass and is maybe “better” or a little punchier.
I mention the ModWrights because I was able to tell the difference with them, I think mostly with the KWA150SE. They sounded great. I decided I had experienced them and was willing to live with less for a fraction of the price. They are the best and maybe most modern gear I have owned. Although they may have some tube qualities, I think they are very neutral. Maybe I was used to more tube coloration. I would be happy to have them again some day as a great all-around modern tube pre / SS amp combo.
My best experience with tubes was my Grant Fidelity RITA-880 45 WPC integrated with KT-88’s (see avatar). It may not have been the “best” amp, but my overall favorite amp except bass, which is what led me to my first solid state separate while the RITA was in the shop for a year for a simple repair. I sold it primarily due to the 115 lb weight that made it difficult to work with. I don’t feel it was very colored. I don’t know how to describe the sound other than glorious. I didn’t think it would be too hard to get back to that sound down the road with separates…
More recently I tried out a Rogue 88. I thought it sounded very good with some similarities to the Grant Fidelity amp. It had some issues though and the seller took it back. I never did a real A/B comparison with the Bryston though.
Next I tried an Audio Research SP-6A first paired with the Bryston. The sound was more mellow than the ModWright or NAD as pre, but I didn’t feel it smothered the detail. I was really enjoying it and felt it just begged for the volume to be cranked on tracks that I normally find a little harsh (not that KEF 107’s are harsh speakers). It also had some issues. I decided to hang onto it for the price I got it, but am currently in a long wait for repairs (end of the year to evaluate).
Initially thinking to pair it with the SP-6A, I also bought an Audio Research Classic 60. Since I couldn’t, it is now paired with the NAD M51. It sounds great – clear, detailed but smooth, musical, and surprisingly good bass response. Pretty similar to the Bryston actually, which is not a negative for either. When I do an A/B comparison, I cannot discern any differences. I have also done longer listening test. One day I thought we were enjoying an extended relaxing toe tapping experience from the Classic 60, and thought – that’s why I wanted tubes! Turns out that was my blind test and I accidentally still had it set to the Bryston!
While waiting on the SP-6a, I thought I’d try the original ModWright product, the SWL 9.0 SE pre-amp. I cannot hear any differences between it and the NAD M51 as pre.
If you have made it through all that, I am wondering if based on these experiences I am seeking out tube coloration and maybe a not so modern tube sound, have I just not heard the right amps/tubes for my tastes, or what tube amp/s you may recommend? Or should I not worry about and stay put as the differences may be too minor for my ears?
My thoughts for tube amp criteria are below. I would be pairing with the NAD or ModWright for now, and potentially SP-6a later.
- Can be somewhat low wattage. Maybe 20-25 WPC minimum if it can drive the 4 ohm KEF 107 load? Not looking for high volume levels for this setup. 50 WPC tube has previously been enough for me with the 107’s for much louder than I need.
- I don’t want thin sounding, but doesn’t have to have great bass/bass extension. I can supplement if needed with subwoofer.
- Does not need to be extremely detailed. Very detailed and transparent is nice as I heard with ModWrights, but not my priority. Also, I don’t think the 107’s are known to be the most revealing speakers though I find them to be very capable.
- Non-fatiguing would be a high priority.
- Decent rhythm/pace.
- I don’t know if its warmth or lushness, but I want it to sound different than my solid state setup. A little more relaxed and engaging. When the light bulb first went off for me hearing decent tube versus decent solid state was that it was like hearing the differences in tube and solid state guitar amps. Both good, but markedly different.
- Price range (thinking used) preferably $750 - $1500. I have looked at many for sale, but feeling lost at this point.
Thanks in advance for any advice!
I had pretty much sold all my tube gear and decided to try some tubes again for music to add some of the tube warmth I had previously heard.
I am pretty happy with my current system and am continually impressed/pleased with it, but thought it would be nice to add, for lack of a more accurate description in my mind, a tube option with more warmth.
I do not hear differences between various components to the nth degree like some posts or reviews I read. I previously thought that it was my system. That is a factor, but I think it’s also my ears (average?), memory, and brain. Speakers are usually easy, but I really need an A/B switch for detailed comparison. Amplifiers I can discern differences most of the time. Sources I haven’t noticed big differences, though the Vault was a noticeable improvement for streaming. I’m trying to see if based on my experience there are any recommendations for a tube setup, or maybe I should stick with what I have, which I plan to use regardless as my primary setup for TV and background music listening.
My current setup is:
Bluesound Vault 2i source currently primarily as streamer
NAD M51 as DAC and pre-amp
Bryston 3B NRB amplifier
KEF 107 speakers
Rythmik F12 subwoofer
Adequate/audiophile grade interconnects, speaker cables, power conditioner, and power cables.
I started changing up my system last year going down a path to upgrade amplification. I then decided speakers were the limitation and have been very happy with the KEF 107’s for 6 months now. I am settled there.
When I got the 107’s I had ModWright LS100 and KWA150. These were very good, but I decided were more than I needed and decided to free up some cash. I did not have them to do an A/B comparison. I know the ModWrights are superior, but the NAD and Bryston get me about 90% there for my system and ears. Instead of saying detailed, they were so transparent that vocals were very clear and realistic. I notice this more with movies/TV where there is more of a veil with the Bryston. The difference is probably across the board, though I think the Bryston holds its own in bass and is maybe “better” or a little punchier.
I mention the ModWrights because I was able to tell the difference with them, I think mostly with the KWA150SE. They sounded great. I decided I had experienced them and was willing to live with less for a fraction of the price. They are the best and maybe most modern gear I have owned. Although they may have some tube qualities, I think they are very neutral. Maybe I was used to more tube coloration. I would be happy to have them again some day as a great all-around modern tube pre / SS amp combo.
My best experience with tubes was my Grant Fidelity RITA-880 45 WPC integrated with KT-88’s (see avatar). It may not have been the “best” amp, but my overall favorite amp except bass, which is what led me to my first solid state separate while the RITA was in the shop for a year for a simple repair. I sold it primarily due to the 115 lb weight that made it difficult to work with. I don’t feel it was very colored. I don’t know how to describe the sound other than glorious. I didn’t think it would be too hard to get back to that sound down the road with separates…
More recently I tried out a Rogue 88. I thought it sounded very good with some similarities to the Grant Fidelity amp. It had some issues though and the seller took it back. I never did a real A/B comparison with the Bryston though.
Next I tried an Audio Research SP-6A first paired with the Bryston. The sound was more mellow than the ModWright or NAD as pre, but I didn’t feel it smothered the detail. I was really enjoying it and felt it just begged for the volume to be cranked on tracks that I normally find a little harsh (not that KEF 107’s are harsh speakers). It also had some issues. I decided to hang onto it for the price I got it, but am currently in a long wait for repairs (end of the year to evaluate).
Initially thinking to pair it with the SP-6A, I also bought an Audio Research Classic 60. Since I couldn’t, it is now paired with the NAD M51. It sounds great – clear, detailed but smooth, musical, and surprisingly good bass response. Pretty similar to the Bryston actually, which is not a negative for either. When I do an A/B comparison, I cannot discern any differences. I have also done longer listening test. One day I thought we were enjoying an extended relaxing toe tapping experience from the Classic 60, and thought – that’s why I wanted tubes! Turns out that was my blind test and I accidentally still had it set to the Bryston!
While waiting on the SP-6a, I thought I’d try the original ModWright product, the SWL 9.0 SE pre-amp. I cannot hear any differences between it and the NAD M51 as pre.
If you have made it through all that, I am wondering if based on these experiences I am seeking out tube coloration and maybe a not so modern tube sound, have I just not heard the right amps/tubes for my tastes, or what tube amp/s you may recommend? Or should I not worry about and stay put as the differences may be too minor for my ears?
My thoughts for tube amp criteria are below. I would be pairing with the NAD or ModWright for now, and potentially SP-6a later.
- Can be somewhat low wattage. Maybe 20-25 WPC minimum if it can drive the 4 ohm KEF 107 load? Not looking for high volume levels for this setup. 50 WPC tube has previously been enough for me with the 107’s for much louder than I need.
- I don’t want thin sounding, but doesn’t have to have great bass/bass extension. I can supplement if needed with subwoofer.
- Does not need to be extremely detailed. Very detailed and transparent is nice as I heard with ModWrights, but not my priority. Also, I don’t think the 107’s are known to be the most revealing speakers though I find them to be very capable.
- Non-fatiguing would be a high priority.
- Decent rhythm/pace.
- I don’t know if its warmth or lushness, but I want it to sound different than my solid state setup. A little more relaxed and engaging. When the light bulb first went off for me hearing decent tube versus decent solid state was that it was like hearing the differences in tube and solid state guitar amps. Both good, but markedly different.
- Price range (thinking used) preferably $750 - $1500. I have looked at many for sale, but feeling lost at this point.
Thanks in advance for any advice!
