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Looking to buy an affordable RCM - help me decide!

B

balkan

New Member
Hi All –

I’m interested in buying a record cleaning machine. I have about a 100 record collection, many of them old records of mine that I abused in high school and no longer sound very good.

I don’t want spend more than $200, and I gather that the main advantage going over that price is easy of use and efficiency rather than cleaner (or much cleaner) records.

I’ve read up on the main contenders in that category and am leaning toward the Record Doctor V, which sells for $200 at audioadvisor. It seems that this is basically a Nitty Gritty 1, (on board vacuum and manual rotation), but a lot cheaper, no?

I happen to have am unused Jensen turntable in my closet, so I though I could keep things cleaner by using that to clean one dirty side of each record, before moving it over to the Record Doctor.

I’d appreciate any thoughts on whether this is the best choice. Other contenders include:

- KAB EV-1 – sells for $170. Seems to be like the Record Doctor, but you attach your home vacuum cleaner. Apparently has a much better platter than the Record Doctor, which makes it easier to spin the record. But it seems I can also just buy that separately for $15 and attach it to the Record Doctor.

I’m wondering whether having to use my home vac is actually a good feature, in that the unit is less likely to ever require repair.

- PHK NANO MECO – from Brazil. $190. Also uses the home vac, but with a built-in motor, unlike the above options. Has some good reviews online. Maybe this is a good way to go? Or is does this just leave me with more that could break and be hard to repair?

- VINYL MAGICIAN – Don’t see any on ebay and don't know if this is still being sold but it seems similar to the Nano Meco, but requires a shop vac. It’s a no-touch system (not sure if PHK’s is also).

-OTHER affordable DIY options for sale? (I know there’s a big thread on this, but that thread is almost overwhelming, and I'm looking to buy rather than build)

Any insights will be much appreciated!

Thanks!

Alex
 
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First of all, an RCM does not clean records. It makes cleaning records much easier and is an important last step if it incorporates a vacuum whether on-board or separate. What cleans records are the formulas and methods used.
That said, I think the Record Doctor or similar Nitty Gritty machine is a good choice in my opinion.
I note you stated that your records were abused. Before you fork out a ton of money note that you can not repair a damaged record. A damaged record will not sound any better after cleaning it. A dirty record that is not damaged however has the potential to astound you after cleaning it.
If you do not plan on picking up more records as time goes on I would suggest foregoing a $200 layout for a machine and instead going full manual using an old TT as a cleaning platform and perhaps a homebrew formula or something. There are many threads that have ideas and instructions for this.
Oh yes, also when "using home vac" is mentioned that means one that can handle moisture such as a little 1 gallon MINI Shop Vac or similar, not your Eureka or Hoover or the like.
 
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Thanks - I believe that most of my old records are simply very dirty. They play, but don't sound great. Also, I am growing my collection.

I've read some about homebrew formulas, but I understand the vacuum makes a huge difference over just the formulas alone, hence my interest in a machine.
 
balkan said:
Thanks - I believe that most of my old records are simply very dirty. They play, but don't sound great. Also, I am growing my collection.

I've read some about homebrew formulas, but I understand the vacuum makes a huge difference over just the formulas alone, hence my interest in a machine.
Click to expand...

Oh, I see.
It's the formulas and how you use them that do the actual cleaning. The vacuuming is an important step in conjunction with the method in that it sucks up the fluid with the suspended dirt as well as any very loose dirt not quite yet fully suspended in the fluid. Also it not only dries the record faster, but also severely decreases the time for dust and dirt to re-settle on the record after cleaning. (Some dust will still get on the record every time you take it in and out of the sleeve, especially if your still using paper inner sleeves).
I used to do the manual method, but modded the crevice tools to a little micro ShopVac for vacuuming the record.
 
balkan said:
Thanks - I believe that most of my old records are simply very dirty. They play, but don't sound great. Also, I am growing my collection.

I've read some about homebrew formulas, but I understand the vacuum makes a huge difference over just the formulas alone, hence my interest in a machine.
Click to expand...

RCMs clean records. The RCM method is the only proven way to get records truly clean. Many people seem to like the KAB EV-1, but I have no personal experience (I'm a happy Nitty Gritty Record Master owner - can't live without it, it's arguably more important than the turntable).
 
I have the Record Doctor, or an earlier version of it, and can't really recommend it. First of all, it's difficult to use. The device that you use to turn the record is poorly designed and hard to use. I added a needle thrust bearing under the "platter" to make it much easier, and it still isn't very good. Second, when placing a dirty record on the machine, one dirty side contacts the vacuum slot before it's been washed. This transfers a lot of dirt to the "lips" of the slot, and that get redeposited on the record when you flip it over to clean the other side. Often, there's a line of dirt left on the record aligned with where the slot happened to be when I stopped rotating the record after vacuuming. Back and forth you go, trying to get it clean, cleaning the lips between each side. Third, it doesn't seem as effective as it ought to be in sucking off all the fluid from the disc. Records come off my machine with a very noticeable haze of fluid and I need to put the records in a dish rack for 15 minutes or so to let it evaporate. Fourth, it is a royal pain to drain out the accumulated fluid. It's got a tiny hole in the bottom, and the inside seems to have a flat bottom so the fluid just sits wherever it lands and isn't directed to the drain. Hold it over the sink and shake the bejeezus out of it to get *some* of the fluid out of it. Fifth, the plastic spindle for the record hole broke on mine soon after I got it (but it was used, unknown for how long, seemed in good shape). I replaced it with a piece of 1/4 wooden dowel.

All in all, it "works," but I think it's a REALLY poor design. Others may (and will) disagree.
 
Thanks! I was thinking though I would use the Jensen turntable to clean one side before putting it on the Record Doctor, to avoid that problem. And I've read the KAB bearing ($15) platter is really good for spinning. That does leave the other problems. I don't mind the 15 min. wait so much, but do you think the weaker suction means it's not getting the records clean enough?
 
balkan said:
Thanks! I was thinking though I would use the Jensen turntable to clean one side before putting it on the Record Doctor, to avoid that problem. And I've read the KAB bearing ($15) platter is really good for spinning. That does leave the other problems. I don't mind the 15 min. wait so much, but do you think the weaker suction means it's not getting the records clean enough?
Click to expand...

Hmm, with the weaker suction it's still a bit better than wiping the dirt back in with cloths, but not as effective as a vacuum with proper suction. As for not getting the record clean enough: the dirt that the fluid can get up is what makes the record cleaner, the trick is to get the fluid and the dirt off the record all together and the best way is with vacuuming. The weakness or strength of the vacuum is not of much concern unless it doesn't lift the fluid and dirt off no matter how many revolutions it takes. If it takes a few more revolutions, but still gets the fluid off and record dry than it's fine.
Yes, the one big drawback to the Nitty Gritty and KAB and Record Dr design is the vacuuming happens on the under side of the record and the weakness of the vacuum. With that design you can't see how it's turning out until you lift the record off and look at it. Also, it's messy because in order for the fluids to be effective you have to make sure the record is well covered in fluid and let it soak a minute or two or three... Now you have to figure out how to flip the record over to vacuum it without fluid going everywhere. Unfortunately, the laws of physics will always prevail there. This is one reason why the models that vacuum from the top are better. However, they are unfortunately also very pricey. You could use your old TT and pick up a micro Shop Vac for around $30 and an extra crevice tool for another couple of bucks. All you need then is some velvet (fake velvet will work fine), something to cut a narrow slot in the crevice tool, some double faced tape and some electrical or duct tape. The whole investment is maybe $45. Then you use the manual method with the vacuuming step and while doing that save up for a RCM that vacuums from the top, nice an powerful like a Okki Nokki or VPI or whatever.
That's what I did.
If your set on a RCM right now and want to go with an underside vacuum model, you can take a look at the KAB. You use your own vacuum with it. I almost got one myself until I realized the underside design was not going to work for me. I also read somewhere that the micro ShopVacs might be too powerful for it. I'm not entirely sure that is true, but unfortunately I was not able to test that. I think they are thinking it would make the record too hard to turn. The vacuum on topside models tend to have high torque platters and strong vacuums, so it could be the case?
 
Funny thing is that the Nitty Gritty has lots of suction. I think it's more a factor of the "lips" around the suction slot making too good a seal to the record. I think for the suction to quickly remove the liquid, air has to pass through the grooves to sweep away the liquid. The lips are too restrictive, perhaps. I think it might actually work better with LESS suction, so the record won't be sucked down as tight against the lips.
 
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