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Looks Like I am Acquiring an Ortofon MC3000 MK II

M

Mister Pig

Pigamus Maximus
Well the Ebay auction closed and I was the high bidder for an Ortofon MC3000 MK II with OEM cantilever and new line contact diamond. Cantilever is straight and from a visual inspection everything looks fine, of course it is returned from the technician and has an hour of run in time on it. I intend to use this as the daily driver on the Scheu turntable, so it should be a fun experiment. In general I like Ortofon cartridges, so I am looking forward to giving it a listen to.

The posts on the web regarding the X000 series of Ortofon cartridges is a bit all over the place, especially on the series II versions. The MC2000 is very well regarded, however finding one with an OEM cantilever that is not compromised is very very difficult. Apparently the MC7500 is also strongly appreciated. The MC3000 II has more varied opinion, with those thinking its a fine cartridge. While the most damning post is a person thinking its was on par with a MC30 Super. Of course he was selling a MC5000 as I recall.

I also decided to get a USB microscope from Amazon to assist with aligning the Ikeda cartridge I have. I found this one from Amazon warehouse that had damaged packaging, so its was reduced by about 40%.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DN923RN?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

I wonder if it will let me look at the cantilever well enough to verify it is indeed the OEM one, and I wonder if I can see how the diamond is bonded. I think it will be great for aligning cartridges, especially those with a large body overhanging the stylus assembly, such as the Ikeda or a Koetsu style body.

Should be a very interesting cartridge to listen to, I am looking forward to it.
 
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Mister Pig said:
Well the Ebay auction closed and I was the high bidder for an Ortofon MC3000 MK II with OEM cantilever and new line contact diamond. Cantilever is straight and from a visual inspection everything looks fine, of course it is returned from the technician and has an hour of run in time on it. I intend to use this as the daily driver on the Scheu turntable, so it should be a fun experiment. In general I like Ortofon cartridges, so I am looking forward to giving it a listen to.

The posts on the web regarding the X000 series of Ortofon cartridges is a bit all over the place, especially on the series II versions. The MC2000 is very well regarded, however finding one with an OEM cantilever that is not compromised is very very difficult. Apparently the MC7500 is also strongly appreciated. The MC3000 II has more varied opinion, with those thinking its a fine cartridge. While the most damning post is a person thinking its was on par with a MC30 Super. Of course he was selling a MC5000 as I recall.

I also decided to get a USB microscope from Amazon to assist with aligning the Ikeda cartridge I have. I found this one from Amazon warehouse that had damaged packaging, so its was reduced by about 40%.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DN923RN?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

I wonder if it will let me look at the cantilever well enough to verify it is indeed the OEM one, and I wonder if I can see how the diamond is bonded. I think it will be great for aligning cartridges, especially those with a large body overhanging the stylus assembly, such as the Ikeda or a Koetsu style body.

Should be a very interesting cartridge to listen to, I am looking forward to it.
Click to expand...
Ime, the USB scope should do fine for this, and other purposes.
 
Mister Pig said:
Well the Ebay auction closed and I was the high bidder for an Ortofon MC3000 MK II with OEM cantilever and new line contact diamond. Cantilever is straight and from a visual inspection everything looks fine, of course it is returned from the technician and has an hour of run in time on it. I intend to use this as the daily driver on the Scheu turntable, so it should be a fun experiment. In general I like Ortofon cartridges, so I am looking forward to giving it a listen to.

The posts on the web regarding the X000 series of Ortofon cartridges is a bit all over the place, especially on the series II versions. The MC2000 is very well regarded, however finding one with an OEM cantilever that is not compromised is very very difficult. Apparently the MC7500 is also strongly appreciated. The MC3000 II has more varied opinion, with those thinking its a fine cartridge. While the most damning post is a person thinking its was on par with a MC30 Super. Of course he was selling a MC5000 as I recall.

I also decided to get a USB microscope from Amazon to assist with aligning the Ikeda cartridge I have. I found this one from Amazon warehouse that had damaged packaging, so its was reduced by about 40%.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DN923RN?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

I wonder if it will let me look at the cantilever well enough to verify it is indeed the OEM one, and I wonder if I can see how the diamond is bonded. I think it will be great for aligning cartridges, especially those with a large body overhanging the stylus assembly, such as the Ikeda or a Koetsu style body.

Should be a very interesting cartridge to listen to, I am looking forward to it.
Click to expand...

If you haven't seen it before this is Ortofon's comparison of the various X000 cartridges. Interesting that the retip is a line contact and the 3000 originally came with a Replicant 100.

I have a similar USB microscope and it helps me set VTA on my cartridges. I have not found mine to be quite powerful enough to clearly see the facets on the stylus. I use a Mac and found that a protractor overlay app allowed me to set VTA accurately but not SRA. Here is a representative pic of what I'm able to do with my USB microscope and the protractor app (Shelter 501II with a new cantilever/stylus) using a record without grooves:

Screen Shot 2019-02-01 at 4.34.30 PM.png
 
AvFan said:
If you haven't seen it before this is Ortofon's comparison of the various X000 cartridges. Interesting that the retip is a line contact and the 3000 originally came with a Replicant 100.

I have a similar USB microscope and it helps me set VTA on my cartridges. I have not found mine to be quite powerful enough to clearly see the facets on the stylus. I use a Mac and found that a protractor overlay app allowed me to set VTA accurately but not SRA. Here is a representative pic of what I'm able to do with my USB microscope and the protractor app (Shelter 501II with a new cantilever/stylus) using a record without grooves:

View attachment 2298520
Click to expand...


Well the Replicant 100 is going to be a custom cut for Ortofon, and you are not going to get an exact match from any of the suppliers that a retipper will use. This person uses either a Namiki or Orgura diamond, so its going to be a variation on a microridge diamond. Its my opinion that diamond profile is going to be the most minimal of differences you can expect when having to retip a high end cartridge that is roughly 12 to 15 years old. My criteria was that the tapered aluminum cantilever be in place, as that is a component that does not have a comparable replacement.
 
AvFan said:
If you haven't seen it before this is Ortofon's comparison of the various X000 cartridges. Interesting that the retip is a line contact and the 3000 originally came with a Replicant 100.

I have a similar USB microscope and it helps me set VTA on my cartridges. I have not found mine to be quite powerful enough to clearly see the facets on the stylus. I use a Mac and found that a protractor overlay app allowed me to set VTA accurately but not SRA. Here is a representative pic of what I'm able to do with my USB microscope and the protractor app (Shelter 501II with a new cantilever/stylus) using a record without grooves:

View attachment 2298520
Click to expand...
Well I really need the USB scope to set this cartridge up, it's a bastard to do.
IMG_20210715_080854__01_resize_10.jpg
I have used the camera on my phone and a back light but the process is clumsy. This should work better.
 
Looks like you got it for a decent price.

I have SL 20E I need to re tip but have other projects in line first , its much lower on the food chain but should be fun to listen to.

At .07mv its a super low output. I want to see how the Wyn Palmer phono deals with it.

Athanasios
 
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Mister Pig said:
Well the Replicant 100 is going to be a custom cut for Ortofon, and you are not going to get an exact match from any of the suppliers that a retipper will use. This person uses either a Namiki or Orgura diamond, so its going to be a variation on a microridge diamond. Its my opinion that diamond profile is going to be the most minimal of differences you can expect when having to retip a high end cartridge that is roughly 12 to 15 years old. My criteria was that the tapered aluminum cantilever be in place, as that is a component that does not have a comparable replacement.
Click to expand...

My curiosity regarding the retip is what to set the VTA to. Current Ortofons that use the Replicant 100 (e.g. my Cadenza Bronze) have a 23 degree VTA while other stylus types are typically 20 degrees. It doesn't really matter as the USB microscope will allow a good look at the cantilever to set the proper VTA (and maybe the stylus for SRA) for the new line contact stylus.

Mister Pig said:
Well I really need the USB scope to set this cartridge up, it's a bastard to do.
View attachment 2298556
I have used the camera on my phone and a back light but the process is clumsy. This should work better.
Click to expand...

No kidding; setting that cart up looks to be a real PITA. @Audiofreak71 thought the same thing. I had trouble getting the microscope close enough to the stylus using the little stand so I bought an inexpensive microphone stand that has a little clamp that holds the microscope. It is a little fiddly to get it all set for the best view but I found using the mic stand keeps the microscope from getting bumped while making cartridge adjustments. It would be fun to see some screen shots of that cart's stylus hiding under the cart body.
 
Mister Pig said:
Do you understand what I will be using it for?
Click to expand...
I used mine to take several quite good pix of a MicroAcoustics 2002 cart a few years ago. I looked for them in the forum but they disappeared in the great AK shuffle. It should work great for your purposes, and you could post them.
 
AvFan said:
If you haven't seen it before this is Ortofon's comparison of the various X000 cartridges. Interesting that the retip is a line contact and the 3000 originally came with a Replicant 100.

I have a similar USB microscope and it helps me set VTA on my cartridges. I have not found mine to be quite powerful enough to clearly see the facets on the stylus. I use a Mac and found that a protractor overlay app allowed me to set VTA accurately but not SRA. Here is a representative pic of what I'm able to do with my USB microscope and the protractor app (Shelter 501II with a new cantilever/stylus) using a record without grooves:

View attachment 2298520
Click to expand...

Is that protractor part of the microscope's software?
 
You guys keep making me think I need something more, damn.

I really like that USB camera with the protractor overlaid, looks like you can really get it down right.
 
Mr Boochie said:
Is that protractor part of the microscope's software?
Click to expand...

The protractor application is in the Apple app store and is on my MacBook laptop. I use iMovie with the USB camera then turn on the protractor app. Once I get everything all lined up I just take a screen shot to memorialize the setup. It is key to use a grooveless record so the protractor can be put on the tip of the stylus.

I originally wanted to use the microscope to actually set the stylus SRA however mine isn't powerful enough. However, there is reasonable skepticism about setting the SRA to this level of detail given the typical record isn't close to flat (even with a clamp, weight or periphery ring).
 
Nashou66 said:
I have MC 20 I need to re tip but have other projects in line first , its much lower on the food chain but should be fun to listen to.
At .07mv its a super low output.
Click to expand...
Yes, quite a few Ortofon cartridges from that era had very low outputs, and the MC3000 mkII is one of them. Could be tricky to handle. Getting sufficient gain isn't a problem. Getting sufficient gain with a good S/N ratio is the problem.
Here's a quote from a Stereophile review:

"...it also had a preposterously low signal output of 50 microvolts, which gave new meaning to the terms hum and noise. Few MC preamps had enough gain to deliver adequate driving voltage to a system, and none of those that did had low enough noise to be usable with the 2000. If the problem wasn't hum, it was hiss; if hiss was acceptably low, there would be too much hum. At least Ortofon had the sense to be aware of the problem and to do something about it, in the form of their T-2000 step-up transformer, which is the only device I ever found that would allow the cartridge to be operated without a constant background of hum or hiss. Despite all this, I have used the MC-2000 as my reference cartridge for the last two years. Why? Because of all the cartridges I've tried, it is by far the most accurate...
The MC-3000 differs from the 2000 in several respects. First, and probably most important, is that it has twice the output. This raises the ante to 100µV, still too low for most MC headamps to handle, but nonetheless translates into a significant 6dB reduction in hum and hiss when Ortofon's T-3000 stepup transformer is used. (I advise it; transformer distortions sound less irksome than transistor distortions.) The higher output cannot help but be an improvement."

https://www.stereophile.com/phonocartridges/188ortofon/index.html
 
Mr Boochie said:
Funny, the article didn't mention the accuracy of the MC-3000 versus the MC-2000. :idea:
Click to expand...

Actually it does.

"On the other hand, the MC-3000 is unquestionably the second most neutral cartridge I know of. That's damnably faint praise, considering its higher price than the MC-2000, but unless I can persuade you to trade in your SME V or Alphason 100 or ET 2 for a Souther, a WTA, or a Versa Dynamics (footnote 3), so you can buy an MC-2000 and suffer with the hum, you're better off with the MC-3000 than anything else I know of.

You can be assured, though, that the MC-3000, like its forerunner, does not sound like the average MC. It is much more up-front and alive, much smoother at the top than most (more delicate, less flashy), and more expensive—particularly when you count in the transformer, which is a virtual necessity. (Ortofon says a number of users have been able to do without it, but that's something I would urge you try, at home, before buying just the pickup.)"

However, one point to make. This is the review for the Ortofon MC3000. The cartridge I bought was the MC3000 MK II. Not the same cartridge.

This cartridge has been bought for the purpose of being my casual listening cartridge, to keep the hours of my Transfiguration Proteus, ZYX 4D, and Ikeda 9 Kawami. What I need it to be is a nice sounding cartridge for what I spent. How it compares to the MC2000 is not as relevant, as I am not looking to duplicate that level of performance.

From what I am finding out from those who value the classic Ortofon TOTL cartridges is that a properly operating MC2000 with OEM cantilever still in place is very very difficult to locate, and those are not selling for cheap money. You will need to locate a SUT or a custom built pre amp stage to use it. This will be significantly more expensive than what I paid for the MC 3000 II I bought. Now if you want an easier to use Ortofon that performs on par with the MC2000 apparently you want the MC7500. Apparently they are on the same level of performance but do not have as low an output level or such high compliance characteristics.
 
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