lastninnja
New Member
Hi, I have been following advice around the web (but also in this lovely PDF: https://www.residentadvisor.net/images/features/2018/Objekt-isolation-guide.pdf ) but have got stumped at the decision for what ball to use under my concrete (20kg 45x45cm) slabs.
So far I have thought about:
Option 1: Frontenis / Frontennis - according to that PDF and reviews on the site these are some of the best for using under a concrete slab. I have no experience though and they are incredibly hard to get outside of Europe it seems. https://www.decathlon.co.uk/ftb-860-frontenis-yellow-id_8353408.html Apparently these are best used sliced in half.
Edit: I found a Spanish shop that sells internationally, with not cheap but still reasonable postage: https://www.smashinn.com/tennis/dunlop-frontennis/136381295/p
"The reason for using frontenis balls rather than squash balls (or anything else) is that they provide the right amount of bounciness underneath the concrete mass when cut in half. Squas balls are great but they need to be used whole, otherwise they compress too much and don’t bounce, which is problematic because you need to find some way of preventing the concrete block from rolling all over the place (often easier said than done since gaffer tape doesn’t always stick to concrete). Frontenis balls, meanwhile, are a bit like racquetballs but slightly smaller and more firm. Because of the firmness, they provide the perfect amount of springiness when you cut them in half, and the fact that they’re cut in half means that they won’t roll around."
Option 2: KIDS Squash balls - Karakal Big Ball - https://www.karakal.com/squash/squash-balls/karakal-big-squash-balls "moves slower" but has a higher bounce also. It is also closer to the size of Frontenis balls, at 46mm (6mm bigger than regular 40mm Squash balls). From reading the above about raquetball or frontenis balls cut in half, it seems like these kids squash balls might a good option to replicate the effect of the frontenis balls. I would presume they would be cut in half as per the PDF above. Not sure if they would be firm enough, but presumably would be fairly close to Squash ball firmness.
Option 3: Racquetballs - it is hard for me to find many options for racquetballs locally, so the easiest are 'Dunlop Atomic Blue' - https://www.rebelsport.com.au/p/dunlop-atomic-blue-racquetball-balls-557286.html . They should work similar to the Kids Squash Balls / Karakal Big Ball I would think. Advised to cut in half. I found some other options like Karakal Competition Racquetball balls but they are more expensive than the Dunlop. Presumably the quality would be similar but perhaps the Karakal Competition has less bounce? Downside according to above is that they are less firm than Squash or Frontenis balls.
Option 4: Squash balls (double yellow dot) - around the web it is suggested that if using Squash balls, you would want the least bouncy version - the opposite of what the PDF states. Since the PDF is written by a working DJ I will take it over the suggestions of others who are most likely working on home isolation techniques and not dealing with big club systems. The suggestion outside of the PDF is for 'double yellow dot' (or rarer double orange dot, for high altitude climates) being good due to having the LEAST bounce. I think people are getting confused between absorption and isolation though. We are using the air, not the rubber to isolated the booth from the concrete/platform (from what I can gather so far). So for Squash balls I have no clue whether you want to go with double yellow dot for the least bounce, or kids big balls for the extra size and bounce. If I were going to buy a double yellow dot, I would go with Dunlop Pro since these are the ones used in competitions (as opposed to other brands).
Also mentioned with Squash balls are that they are meant to be used whole, not cut in half, and therefore require some sort of base to seat them in. Half way down this page Jan Vinge here encourages the use of 'Qwikcaps' with Squash balls - https://www.stereophile.com/content/all-you-rega-lovers-groovetracer-subplatter-rega-turntables-1
Which are a plumbing supply which can be seen here (the brand I found is Fernco PQC - PQC-103 is the 3" model) - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fernco-QC-...tic-or-3-Cast-Iron-Flexible-NEW-/303119087418
Any advice? The balls are mostly the same price (will end up costing me around $40-50 AUD for either 8-12 regular Squash balls, Big Ball Squash balls or racquetballs. I cannot find anyone in Australia (or even online apart from some very expensive ebay sellers including outrageous postage costs) that sells Frontenis/Frontennis balls.
I was thinking of trying the Big Balls since they seem 'about right' as a replacement for the Frontenis, should be bouncy enough, have the similar size to Frontenis and no one on youtube or the net seems to have made a video or reviewed them, so I feel like it might be worth 'trying something new' just to see how it goes.
Edit: Now I have found the Frontenis balls for sale online, I am thinking I should get them, since the guide specifically states they were the best the author had found. I found 'Head' brand have two options - blue and yellow. I'm guessing the yellow are more 'proper' and the blue may be practice. However reading reviews of the brand some people say they break easily. Whereas Dunlop have a good reputation with Squash and other balls. So I think I will buy 3 packs of the triple Dunlop packs for a total of 9 Frontenis balls. $15 AUD per pack plus $20 postage = $65 AUD for 9x Frontenis balls delivered, or $50 for 9x Head brand.
Edit 2:
- there are at least two types it seems, yellow 'slow/practice' and white 'fast/professional'. I'm guessing the yellow practice ones are the ones people have been using, since I haven't seen ANY of the white 'professional' ones on any websites yet.
So far I have thought about:
Option 1: Frontenis / Frontennis - according to that PDF and reviews on the site these are some of the best for using under a concrete slab. I have no experience though and they are incredibly hard to get outside of Europe it seems. https://www.decathlon.co.uk/ftb-860-frontenis-yellow-id_8353408.html Apparently these are best used sliced in half.
Edit: I found a Spanish shop that sells internationally, with not cheap but still reasonable postage: https://www.smashinn.com/tennis/dunlop-frontennis/136381295/p
"The reason for using frontenis balls rather than squash balls (or anything else) is that they provide the right amount of bounciness underneath the concrete mass when cut in half. Squas balls are great but they need to be used whole, otherwise they compress too much and don’t bounce, which is problematic because you need to find some way of preventing the concrete block from rolling all over the place (often easier said than done since gaffer tape doesn’t always stick to concrete). Frontenis balls, meanwhile, are a bit like racquetballs but slightly smaller and more firm. Because of the firmness, they provide the perfect amount of springiness when you cut them in half, and the fact that they’re cut in half means that they won’t roll around."
Option 2: KIDS Squash balls - Karakal Big Ball - https://www.karakal.com/squash/squash-balls/karakal-big-squash-balls "moves slower" but has a higher bounce also. It is also closer to the size of Frontenis balls, at 46mm (6mm bigger than regular 40mm Squash balls). From reading the above about raquetball or frontenis balls cut in half, it seems like these kids squash balls might a good option to replicate the effect of the frontenis balls. I would presume they would be cut in half as per the PDF above. Not sure if they would be firm enough, but presumably would be fairly close to Squash ball firmness.
Option 3: Racquetballs - it is hard for me to find many options for racquetballs locally, so the easiest are 'Dunlop Atomic Blue' - https://www.rebelsport.com.au/p/dunlop-atomic-blue-racquetball-balls-557286.html . They should work similar to the Kids Squash Balls / Karakal Big Ball I would think. Advised to cut in half. I found some other options like Karakal Competition Racquetball balls but they are more expensive than the Dunlop. Presumably the quality would be similar but perhaps the Karakal Competition has less bounce? Downside according to above is that they are less firm than Squash or Frontenis balls.
Option 4: Squash balls (double yellow dot) - around the web it is suggested that if using Squash balls, you would want the least bouncy version - the opposite of what the PDF states. Since the PDF is written by a working DJ I will take it over the suggestions of others who are most likely working on home isolation techniques and not dealing with big club systems. The suggestion outside of the PDF is for 'double yellow dot' (or rarer double orange dot, for high altitude climates) being good due to having the LEAST bounce. I think people are getting confused between absorption and isolation though. We are using the air, not the rubber to isolated the booth from the concrete/platform (from what I can gather so far). So for Squash balls I have no clue whether you want to go with double yellow dot for the least bounce, or kids big balls for the extra size and bounce. If I were going to buy a double yellow dot, I would go with Dunlop Pro since these are the ones used in competitions (as opposed to other brands).
Also mentioned with Squash balls are that they are meant to be used whole, not cut in half, and therefore require some sort of base to seat them in. Half way down this page Jan Vinge here encourages the use of 'Qwikcaps' with Squash balls - https://www.stereophile.com/content/all-you-rega-lovers-groovetracer-subplatter-rega-turntables-1
Which are a plumbing supply which can be seen here (the brand I found is Fernco PQC - PQC-103 is the 3" model) - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fernco-QC-...tic-or-3-Cast-Iron-Flexible-NEW-/303119087418
Any advice? The balls are mostly the same price (will end up costing me around $40-50 AUD for either 8-12 regular Squash balls, Big Ball Squash balls or racquetballs. I cannot find anyone in Australia (or even online apart from some very expensive ebay sellers including outrageous postage costs) that sells Frontenis/Frontennis balls.
I was thinking of trying the Big Balls since they seem 'about right' as a replacement for the Frontenis, should be bouncy enough, have the similar size to Frontenis and no one on youtube or the net seems to have made a video or reviewed them, so I feel like it might be worth 'trying something new' just to see how it goes.
Edit: Now I have found the Frontenis balls for sale online, I am thinking I should get them, since the guide specifically states they were the best the author had found. I found 'Head' brand have two options - blue and yellow. I'm guessing the yellow are more 'proper' and the blue may be practice. However reading reviews of the brand some people say they break easily. Whereas Dunlop have a good reputation with Squash and other balls. So I think I will buy 3 packs of the triple Dunlop packs for a total of 9 Frontenis balls. $15 AUD per pack plus $20 postage = $65 AUD for 9x Frontenis balls delivered, or $50 for 9x Head brand.
Edit 2:
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