ozmoid
Lunatic Member
Another fan of Yamaha's implementation here.
Having the effect be variable is the key, in addition to the curves they were trying to achieve.
Loudness button: what's it REALLY good for?
- Thread starter Jailtime
- Start date
Another fan of Yamaha's implementation here.
Having the effect be variable is the key, in addition to the curves they were trying to achieve.
Sorry, but I disagree. Loudness is designed to compensate for how our ears perceive different frequencies at low volumes - regardless of speakers. Loudness attempts to compensate for the Fletcher-Munson curve.
I find loudness adds greatly to low-volume listening (e.g. late nights when the family is asleep).
Alberto
zenith2134
Lunatic Member
No loudness for me, ever. I am a minimalist as much as possible with my audio. Just my opinion, however.
I'm pretty sure loudness comp. was around way before Yamaha and Mc were popular--- My guess is that it first surfaced in '50s HK, Scott, and Fisher gear.
About the Kenwoods... My ka-8100 has 3 stage loudness and also 50hz/100hz selection. Neat, but I leave it OFF
I'm pretty sure loudness comp. was around way before Yamaha and Mc were popular--- My guess is that it first surfaced in '50s HK, Scott, and Fisher gear.
About the Kenwoods... My ka-8100 has 3 stage loudness and also 50hz/100hz selection. Neat, but I leave it OFF
Like previously stated, it's main intent was to "boost" bass at low volume levels.
Unfortunately, from what I've seen in the real world, I have yet to come across a receiver that rolls off the bass boost at higher volume levels. Thus making the "loud" button into nothing more than just another form of bass eq. And also from what I've seen, most "loud" functions tend to be much more than just a small boost, and tend to be wider in spectrum than is needed.
On the other hand- many car receivers have "loud" functions that work too well. For instance, my stock Ford head unit has a loud function that you can not turn on nor off, and it is too exaggerated. At low volumes, it really pumps up the bass to compensate for how our ears work and for road noise. At high levels, it rolls the bass back to flat or perhaps even to negative levels. During use, peak bass levels are actually only attained at one quarter volume or less (!!), while the mid and treble frequencies operate normally, getting gradually louder as you turn the dial higher.
Unfortunately, from what I've seen in the real world, I have yet to come across a receiver that rolls off the bass boost at higher volume levels. Thus making the "loud" button into nothing more than just another form of bass eq. And also from what I've seen, most "loud" functions tend to be much more than just a small boost, and tend to be wider in spectrum than is needed.
On the other hand- many car receivers have "loud" functions that work too well. For instance, my stock Ford head unit has a loud function that you can not turn on nor off, and it is too exaggerated. At low volumes, it really pumps up the bass to compensate for how our ears work and for road noise. At high levels, it rolls the bass back to flat or perhaps even to negative levels. During use, peak bass levels are actually only attained at one quarter volume or less (!!), while the mid and treble frequencies operate normally, getting gradually louder as you turn the dial higher.
budgetaudio6
Addicted Member
when i was a kid .
i used the loudness button
prodigiously.
along with the bass boosted separatly.
i had a pair of klhs(80s) with four 8 or 6 inch woofers.
talk about bass. cleans your ears while your at it.
they had a high damping despite being ported.
they didnt really need it(boost)
but hey i was young. and they took everything i threw at them.
i used the loudness button
prodigiously.
along with the bass boosted separatly.
i had a pair of klhs(80s) with four 8 or 6 inch woofers.
talk about bass. cleans your ears while your at it.
they had a high damping despite being ported.
they didnt really need it(boost)
but hey i was young. and they took everything i threw at them.
bastek
Well-Known Member
My infinity IRS Sigma are flat to 28 hz, and positioned for best bass response. Bass i very clean and tight, even at very low levels. I don't see the need for more bass which alters the recording. Of course if you are a basshead you can't keep your fingers off..:nono:
colterphoto
Active Member
it goes to eleven, that's one more louder, innit?
mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
Probably neither; it was moderately common in the early days of consumer/hobbyist hifi. For example, the EICO HF-52 had it in the mid/late 1950s. My Sherwood S-5500II integrated amp (probably early-1960s vintage) had variable loudness as well.
beans
Got arth-a-ritis
My C504 as with many Mac pre's, has variable loudness that works the reverse of a Yammy where flat is the max clockwise position so that it can be used as a volume control once you set the real volume to your liking. The Mac is flat at the counterclockwise position and provides a Fletcher-Munson boost as you turn clockwise.
Most of the time I play FM at low volume so I will set the loudness at no more than 1/4 of a turn, and it sounds great like that. When doing "critical listening" at higher volume I set all tone and loudness off, which in my case is like a tone defeat.
VARIABLE IS MUCH BETTER!!!:yes:
mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
Just to set the record straight: actually the "on-off" loudness switches do impart a variable contour... the degree of LF and/or HF compensation (typically it's actually MR suppression) is a function of the setting of the volume control. The problem is that the SPL in your room (which is essentially the important variable for the Fletcher-Munson curves) as a function of where the volume control knob is set depends on many things, not the least of which is how efficient (sensitive) your speakers are. The folks who designed the loudness contour circuit in your amp or receiver can't have that exact information! That's the fundamental problem with the "fixed" loudness circuits.
Spot on with that -- pretty much how I use the one on my Mac as well. Makes a big difference at night, when the volume is low. Couple of watts and my speakers are barely breathing -- the variable loudness control works really well to give them a bit more life. :thmbsp:
superdog
AK Member
Thats exactly how I use mine, same situation.Late night listening is done exclusively on my cr620.:thmbsp:
Obtheres
Member
I couldn't live without the variable loudness control on my Yamaha CX-1000U. Loudness buttons on other gear I've heard work ok short term, but I find that I end up with more listening fatigue that way (not to mention the risk of a blown tweeter). On the CX-1000U I can find a perfect balance on any record at any volume level and I haven't heard any coloration or noise added to the signal.
KeninDC
Hazy Cosmic Jive
Writing from personal experience, the loudness button on my Marantz 2238 is quite the blunt instrument and makes me fear for my tweeters. I do not like the sound either - too boomy. I eschew using it.
I keep my Yamaha CR 620 on "flat" since that is for work listening. On the Yamaha loudness knob, "flat" is designed for low-level listening.
My main system amp and line stage have no tone controls at all, so I don't have the "loudness" option.
I keep my Yamaha CR 620 on "flat" since that is for work listening. On the Yamaha loudness knob, "flat" is designed for low-level listening.
My main system amp and line stage have no tone controls at all, so I don't have the "loudness" option.
beans
Got arth-a-ritis
Exactly! One reason I mentioned the Yammy method is that the loudness control can basically be used as a volume control because unlike my C504, turning CCW from flat cuts the mid-range instead of my case where turning CW from flat causes a boost in the bass and highs. I kinda prefer the Yam, but no biggie.