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Low Compliance vs Med Compliance tonearm

AudioJag

AudioJag

Active Member
Hi All..... Would anyone out there know if the tonearm on a Sansui 929 turntable is a low compliance or med compliance arm?

I'm planning on ordering a new cartridge that has that option, but I have no idea of the tonearms compliance. I currently have a Denon DL160 mounted which has been used for several years now. Never thought I needed to know about compliance of the tonearm before. I also have a Thorens TD124 with SME arm..... don't know the compliance of that either.

Any help appreciated.
 
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Do you have a digital scale? You can estimate effective mass using online caculators available online (http://www.luckydog.demon.co.uk/images/EMC.xls is one example). Typically you remove the headshell/cart and the counterweight, weigh these separately, weigh the "bare" tonearm, and plug them into the spreadsheet calculator. From the tonearm effective mass you can use charts available on sites like vinylengine.com to determine the range of compliance you need.

As a guess, judging from pictures of your turntable, it appears to be somewhat standard "s" shaped arms, which typically are medium to medium high mass, so mid to lower compliance cartridges would be best.

Good luck!
 
cgutz said:
Do you have a digital scale? You can estimate effective mass using online caculators available online (http://www.luckydog.demon.co.uk/images/EMC.xls is one example). Typically you remove the headshell/cart and the counterweight, weigh these separately, weigh the "bare" tonearm, and plug them into the spreadsheet calculator. From the tonearm effective mass you can use charts available on sites like vinylengine.com to determine the range of compliance you need.

As a guess, judging from pictures of your turntable, it appears to be somewhat standard "s" shaped arms, which typically are medium to medium high mass, so mid to lower compliance cartridges would be best.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks for this info..... right now I would go with your last statement as the previous seems pretty complicated and I don't want to take it that far. But it is a pretty standard tonearm that I believe I read that it has roots from Microseiki and SME. So if I assume medium mass..... I could choose either a mid or low compliance cartridge and be ok......... ???
 
Yes. While the weighing of the arm, etc seems daunting, if you have a digital scale, it really is quite easy.

Otherwise, the assumption that low to mid compliance carts are best match is probably sound.
 
AudioJag said:
Hi All..... Would anyone out there know if the tonearm on a Sansui 929 turntable is a low compliance or med compliance arm?

I'm planning on ordering a new cartridge that has that option, but I have no idea of the tonearms compliance. I currently have a Denon DL160 mounted which has been used for several years now. Never thought I needed to know about compliance of the tonearm before. I also have a Thorens TD124 with SME arm..... don't know the compliance of that either.

Any help appreciated.
Click to expand...

Tone arms are not low or medium compliance. They either have a lot of mass or not so much mass or something in between. Conventional wisdom is that a high or low compliance cartridge/stylus/cantilever works better with a certain mass tone arm.
 
cgutz said:
As a guess, judging from pictures of your turntable, it appears to be somewhat standard "s" shaped arms, which typically are medium to medium high mass, so mid to lower compliance cartridges would be best.
Click to expand...

Just a quick caution about assumptions...

the Classic SME S arms of the late 70's and early 80's are low mass...

Technics SL1200mkII S-arm is 12g low-mid mass

JVC QL-Y5F S-Arm is mid mass (circa 16g)

The thorens mentioned has an SME arm, chances are that arm is low mass and suitable for high compliance cartridges... the Sansui may be mid mass - without manufacturer specs the only way to know for sure is to measure....
 
dlaloum said:
Just a quick caution about assumptions...

the Classic SME S arms of the late 70's and early 80's are low mass...

Technics SL1200mkII S-arm is 12g low-mid mass

JVC QL-Y5F S-Arm is mid mass (circa 16g)

The thorens mentioned has an SME arm, chances are that arm is low mass and suitable for high compliance cartridges... the Sansui may be mid mass - without manufacturer specs the only way to know for sure is to measure....
Click to expand...


Agreed, especially on the higher end units with S shaped arms. If I remember, the Jelco arm on my KD550 calculated out to about 12g and works well wiht cartridges that are mid-high compliance.

However, I'm guessing with the exception of some higher quality units, the majority of production runs of S shaped arms had mid to higher mass tonearms - but I may be wrong. I know my first Sony was certainly higher, and my KD5070 is higher (about 17g stock - lowered it a bit by using a lighter headshell).
 
I have all the specs on the SR929 turntable except the tonearm mass :-( It does say minimum tracking force 0.5g (with a cartridge guaranteed to operate there). And an acceptable cartridge weight of 2 to 11g. But no tonearm mass........ I'm using an Orsonic headshell.... not sure if that makes it any lighter.
 
That's a relatively low mass arm suitable for high compliance cartridges like a Shure V15-IV or ADC ZLM, etc. The 929 may not be suitable for some moving coils as it will need a relatively high mass headshell so the suspension has something to "work against". And with that lash-up, it might not balance??

That's one reason that Technics offered an option add-on counterweight. To help with situations like that. But, if the 929 will balance with all parts optimized, you are good to go :)
 
Thanks BrocLuno.... I'm considering trying a Soundsmith Otello moving iron cartridge. They give you the option of high or medium compliance. The Denon DL160 MC has seemed to work fine over the years. No problems with balancing and tracking. I'm still miffed that Denon discontinued it!
 
Audiojag did you happen to get the Otello? Thinking about getting one, but haven't heard any reviews for it.
 
kceateva said:
Audiojag did you happen to get the Otello? Thinking about getting one, but haven't heard any reviews for it.
Click to expand...

I've had the Otello for over six months. Got it at the old price of $300. As much as I love it, I don't think I would buy it for the new price of $479..... that's too much. I have a Grado Gold with an 8MZ V stylus on it, and sonically they are very close. A little heavier on the base with the Grado. The original Grado Gold stylus was ok too. If you plan for a SoundSmith, get the Carmen. They tried to talk me into it when it was $600, just couldn't break for that amount at that time.

Remeber when purchasing.... you will have a high degree of "diminishing return" for your money with a cartridge/stylus. I also have a Denon DL-160 which was also very good... Unfortunately it is no longer available, and the DL-110 is NOT the same.

Let me know what you think or choose.
 
I'm going for a high compliance cartridge to fit on my sony psx-555es turntable. I was leaning toward soundsmith or OM40 or the Audio-Technica AT-OC9ML/II AT or Audio-Technica AT-150MLX. Still looking any advice would be great. Also have a thread about ithttp://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=608061&page=2
 
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