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Low efficiency vs. high efficiency speakers?

sonix

sonix

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone,

I think this question has been brought up before. Anyway why would you prefer low efficiency speakers over high efficiency speakers or vise versa?

I realize the fact that low efficiency speakers need a lot of amplifier power to drive them properly otherwise something can get damaged at high volumes and low frequencies. I also know the fact that efficient speaker do not require much power to drive them.

My main question is are low efficiency speakers with a big power amp, sonically superior to high efficiency speakers and a smaller power amp.

I think that low efficiency speakers with a powerfull amplifier would be superior with music that requires proper low frequency reproduction. Because low frequencies dip down to low ohms in the speakers a bigger power demand is required from the power amp to properly reproduce those low frequencies without distortion.

Many low efficiency speakers are also low ohm speakers, like 4ohm and 2ohm in rare cases. I don't think it is a coinsidence.

This is where I would like your theoretical knowledge and practical if possible.

Am I on the ball? What do you say?
 
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Dynamics.
I don't have a definate answer to your question other than to say that most amps behave better at their start. Many speakers finally come alive with more juice than they are rated for. High efficiency speakers just make it easier to do it for the money.
 
For some applications low efficiency is due to small size which has certain advantages as small speakers image better than bigger speakers, and sound pretty good, but not as dynamic or loud as bigger speakers, but certainly very listenable with a sub.

I do have some small inefficient NHT Super ones for bedroom listening and for times I want to hear the sound stage and detail near field but over all I think I like big brash very dynamic efficient speakers that can reach concert level dbs cleanly better. Mind you that is a personal preference I am not saying one is better than the other.

As for inefficent big speakers I don't what is up with that except that I hear the Carver Amazings are actually amazing but I wouldn't know having never heard them.
 
it depends on your taste, usually high efficiency speakers sound good with low powered tube amps (don't ask me why), and low efficiency speakers sound good with high powered amps because they were designed to need the power that they do...but what i'm wondering is that is there a high enough powered tube amp to power the really low efficiency speakers to make them sound good?
 
bryblob said:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~snip~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
but what i'm wondering is that is there a high enough powered tube amp to power the really low efficiency speakers to make them sound good?
Click to expand...

Sure there is, Tube Research Lab's 800 watt triode monoblock amps will fill the bill just fine...if you can afford them (and you have enough people to help move them).

http://www.tuberesearchlabs.com/products/gt800.htm

Best Regards,
TerryO
 
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I like em both if they sound good. I had stats for 30 years and loved them. They need powerful amps.
Now I have 2 sets of 94db at 1watt speakers. 1 of the sets is 4 ohms. What I like about them is I can now afford higher quality amps with lower power.
In other words, I can afford a low power class A amp. Where with the stats I could not afford high power class A. Both had good trade offs.
I often think how much better the stats would have sounded with better amps.
 
No speaker is designed to be low efficiency, it is a by-product of the acceptable compromises. High efficiency speakers have less smooth frequency responses because of horns (which boost efficiency) and low efficiency speakers frequently have smoother responses because of compromises in cabinet size, exotic and usually ineffient drivers or complex cross-over networks. When a speaker has an uneven frequency response, you can correct peaks by using notch filters and l-pads, both of which reduce efficiency by turning the electricity into heat by way of their resistors.

Some high efficiency speakers like Klipsch have somewhat "hot" sounding high freqencies, and tube equipment often softens the sound a bit due to their inherent "tube" sound, which is often a gently tapered high frequency response. Tubes also usually have lower output power and people are naturally drawn to higher efficiency speakers in order to achieve adequate loudness levels.

Exceptions to the above, of course, but I think they are generally true.
 
I think matched to the right amplifier they both have the potential to sound nice.

That is high power amp with low efficiency speakers sounds good as does low power with an efficient speaker.

I have noted the more power hungry speakers not being as detailed at low volume, but I really do like both - given the synergy of well matched equipment.

There is also that whole headroom thing with either. I don't know that I can hear that, but I won't deny it exists. If you want that extra head room with power hungry speakers you have to pony up the dollars.
 
I tend to prefer really high-quality lower-powered vacuum tube amplification and high-sensitivity speakers; I like realistic presence and effortlessness in musical reproduction.
 
lab said:
No speaker is designed to be low efficiency, it is a by-product of the acceptable compromises. High efficiency speakers have less smooth frequency responses because of horns (which boost efficiency) and low efficiency speakers frequently have smoother responses because of compromises in cabinet size, exotic and usually ineffient drivers or complex cross-over networks. When a speaker has an uneven frequency response, you can correct peaks by using notch filters and l-pads, both of which reduce efficiency by turning the electricity into heat by way of their resistors.

Some high efficiency speakers like Klipsch have somewhat "hot" sounding high freqencies, and tube equipment often softens the sound a bit due to their inherent "tube" sound, which is often a gently tapered high frequency response. Tubes also usually have lower output power and people are naturally drawn to higher efficiency speakers in order to achieve adequate loudness levels.

Exceptions to the above, of course, but I think they are generally true.
Click to expand...

I think this is a great summary of the issue, and aligns with my thoughts (okay, and biases). Clearly, there are minds here at AK that are much more familiar with the technical reasons for this. I'm just not a big fan of horns. As noted above, it's the hot or brash sound. To me, they often sound like the PA systems at live concerts.

From my limited experience listening to horn-driven speakers, they're too harsh sounding. I can't listen to them very long without getting a headache.

This is a personal preference, of course, and YMMV.

I have a follow-up questions, though: Where's the cut-off point between high and low efficiency speakers? Does it vary based on 4-ohm and 8-ohm designs?

Thanks.
 
Most standard speakers run between ~86 and ~94db, although there are some real outliers. The cutoff, for me, is when my 'flea amps' (2 to 3.4 watts) can't drive them satisfactorilly. For most speakers that's around ~90db.

In other words, Lab is absolutely correct
 
Sir.Byrd said:
Big power and high efficiency :yes:
Click to expand...

Sansui G9000DB and Klipsch Cornwalls. :smoke:

Interestingly, as has been noted, some prefer tubes due to high frequency roll-off.

I have no issue with that, but I believe -- in general -- our hearing and/or the inability of the Cornwall's K77 tweeter to produce the highest frequencies does that, anyway.

So solid state, as supported by PWK since 1971, is how I roll. (It, also, doesn't hurt that I haven't heard a tube amplifier that didn't seem veiled, loose, and flabby, but that could merely be example driven.)

In any event, presuming you can get quality sound and amplification, why would someone, ever, not get as many watts as they can reasonably afford?

Of course, the key to that may be that tube watts seem to cost more than SS watts?

Not trying to start an argument, I'm just asking. Because, at that point, the efficiency of the speakers isn't really an issue.
 
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Most speakers I've had fall in the low-to mid of that range: 88, 89, and 90 db or so. All have had dome tweeters. I know most Klipsch are up around 94 or so (though I'm sure this crowd will love to contribute just how efficient theirs are).
 
... or the quality of the output at low power on a high power amp. This is a very real consideration with high-sensitivity speakers ("the first watt") and many high-power amps really fall short at low output.

That's why Nelson Pass has his "FirstWatt" marque. Nelson Pass gets it.
:-)

http://www.firstwatt.com/

Probably worth mentioning that Paul Klipsch is widely reputed to have voiced the "Heritage" speakers using Brook push-pull 2A3 amplifiers (in the range of 7 to 10 watts, I'd reckon, at reasonable levels of harmonic distortion).

For the record, I find the EV T-35 (K-77) tweeter to be almost unbearably shrill. The MR horn in the older Cornies (such as mine, which were 1974 production models) has some significant resonance problems, too.

If you're comparing Altecs and Cornies sometime, do me a favor and perform this interesting test. Listen to Ghost in This House from Alison Krauss and Union Station Live one each and post your impressions of each. This is a terrifically recorded album, but Ms Krauss' vocals can be very revealing of midrange reproduction flaws.

If you further have the chance to listen to a pair of Quad ESL-57s, compare their midrange performance to the other two loudspeakers using the same track.
 
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Labs right on!

I have and Love BOTH in my main rigs!

at home my main rig I run Hales revelation 3's that offer Sensitivity: 86.5dB (2.83V/1m) To drive and properly control these I need larger, more powerful, low impedance capable amplifiers. I found a happy balance with my 385 WPC monoblocks that puts me in my happy place:music:

At work in the main rig, I run a pair of Cornwall III's offering sensitivity of 102 db @ 1watt/1meter, I can and have driven the cornwalls with many different amplifiers sucessfully but is currently driven by a low wattage class-A Pass F5.
I hooked the cornwalls up to a more powerful Proceed AMP2 last week and had wonderful sound as well, BUT I find that with these more sensitive designs i actually prefer the lower-powered sweetness of a lower powered Class-A amplifier and changed back to the F5 immediately.

THANKFULLY I don't have to pick between the two I like BOTH.:yes:

tal
 
I should probably also say (realizing full-well that I've said this before) that the best I ever heard my own Cornies sound was being driven by a Marantz 8B (stereo PP EL34 at 35 wpc). The 8B is just a magnificent-sounding amplifier.
 
I chose my speakers based on their sound and then shopped for the amplifier power they needed. I wouldn't choose speakers based on their efficiency.
 
Yes and no LAB, I have JBL C51 Apollos that are something on the order of 96 db/watt/meter and aren't horns, the tweeter is a ring radiator and my understanding is that isn't a true horn compression driver. Anyway they sound great with my solid state 130 watt per channel Sansui AU D11 II integrated amp, and can get as Zilch says "stupid loud," with little distortion. So while what you are saying is generally true LAB there are always exceptions.

Edit hmm apparently the 075 is horn loaded but not a compression driver. At any rate it's well behaved enough to use with solid state and little equalization IMO unlike the compression horn in my Klipsch Herseys. I would be curious to hear some JBL 4430 which I suspect are another horn designed for, and well bahaved enough for, a solid state amp.
 
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