Low watt tube power amp hunt
- Thread starter HiMcDunnough
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Nyjblbob
Hooked on Horn's and Tubes. Go big or go home
I have another Idea for your Low power Amp search
I find if you Biamp, you can enjoy a 1.5 Watt PC 45 Triode tube amp or even a El84 Set amp. especially with Horns at ear splitting levels The Bass Amp is much less critical
Another Rabbit hole to look into
Bobhorn
I find if you Biamp, you can enjoy a 1.5 Watt PC 45 Triode tube amp or even a El84 Set amp. especially with Horns at ear splitting levels The Bass Amp is much less critical
Another Rabbit hole to look into
Bobhorn
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rromeo
Active Member
I have GPA 604s that I run with 1.75 watts. A 45 amp. Absolutely no problem with headroom. I have tried many different amps including up to Conrad Johnson LPS70 (70 watts) and others in between and my 45 amp works best imo...
FYI- I have a 2A3 integrated Bowei chinese amp that is very nice and is definitely enough power (supposedly puts out 8 watts, not sure how... but sounds like it) and I have another 2A3/45 amp that does a great job also. I would consider selling either and both within OP's budget. Pm me for info if any interest.
FYI- I have a 2A3 integrated Bowei chinese amp that is very nice and is definitely enough power (supposedly puts out 8 watts, not sure how... but sounds like it) and I have another 2A3/45 amp that does a great job also. I would consider selling either and both within OP's budget. Pm me for info if any interest.
Nyjblbob
Hooked on Horn's and Tubes. Go big or go home
Yes you can get decent Volume with super efficient Horn speakers
Although I do Find my Jbl 15’s do need a kick
to pumping .
I do listen to mostly Rock at louder Volumes
Concerts are Loud!
It’s what I m trying to duplicate!
nj pheonix
Lunatic Member
Thanks to the OP for the timely thread. I'm looking for just the same sort of thing. I specifically want a low-wattage tube amp just for my turntable and some efficient speakers. I won't use it much and it certainly won't compete with my high-power systems. Just want some clean high-res sound from records. Will be listening semi-nearfield, mostly classical and acoustic jazz. Already have a tube phono stage and don't want to waylay the thread, just to say that I'm also following with interest.
I've found at that efficiency 4w is plenty.
Perhaps I don't listen as loud as some
4 watts with 100dB speakers, is the same output level as 40 watts with 90dB speakers.
That's about bare minimum for a large living room, IME.
Regards,
Gordon.
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
With 100db speakers you'll never use more than a fraction of that first watt. Here's a good read and I'd certainly consider Steve's Zen triode amp.
http://www.decware.com/paper43.htm
http://www.decware.com/paper43.htm
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nj pheonix
Lunatic Member
I have limited experience in this observation.
Using a 3.5w DGSE Magnovox amp on cornwalls (2 different sets of cornwalls, 2 different houses .) Both medium sized rooms. (For sake of keeping record straight, Cornwalls are 102db).
That said, in both cases, music was louder than I typically listen and amp wasn't running wide open .
Perhaps, in a larger room with slightly less efficiency, wanting more volume, maybe
.Clearly I never went for club level Spls.
On the flip side of that I've run 17-60wpc on 90db and less sensitive speakers and felt I had adequate power also
I certainly respect your opinion Gordon
Les Lammers
Well-Known Member
You should check out the Inspire amps and preamps Dennis Had is building.
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
Here's a blog by a fellow AK member which is a great source of information. He owns and reviews some of the finest low wattage tube amps available.
http://glowinthedarkaudio.com/thoughts-opinions.html
http://glowinthedarkaudio.com/thoughts-opinions.html
I think you're making a big mistake based on a fundamental misunderstanding. You seem to be assuming that because the volume control is very low down you're not using much power. That isn't necessarily true. A 40W amp could be putting out 1W with the volume control on 1/10. A different 40W amp could be putting out 40W with the volume control on 1/10. The position of the volume control really tells you nothing about the power output.
HiMcDunnough
Member
I mean I guess I’m basing it on volume. You’re saying If 3/10 is unlistenably loud it doesn’t necessarily mean I have too much power? I’m definitely not saying I have good understanding of any of this, so nothing would surprise me at this point.
But I do think the only thing to do is try one out and see how it sounds!
Correct. A very high input sensitivity means you'll get XdB SPL with the volume control very low. A very low input sensitivity means you'll get the same XdB SPL with the volume control turned up high. That's input sensitivity, not available power output.
Unfortunately there's a lot of variability between different amps and I suspect some manufacturers go for high sensitivity to give the impression of having a lot of power in reserve, even though there isn't. There would appear to be some logic behind thinking "hey, it's really loud and the volume control is hardly off zero - this thing must have bags of power!", but it's just misleading.
Still, you're curious to know what a low power SET sounds like so go ahead and try one.
linuxslate
Well-Known Member
In the mid 1980's, I worked for Radio Shack. I used to do a "social experiment" with customers -- especially if they complained that a given stereo (or speakers...) was too expensive, or "not enough watts".
At the time, Radio Shack sold several stereo True RMS watt meters (different ones in different years). I had them hooked up to one of our smaller stereo systems, allong with a pair of mid-range speakers.
I would cover the watt meters, and play some music loud enough to make it difficult to converse. Sometimes loud enough to make them cringe (just a little) or move away from the speakers. I would characterize it as "Store-filling sound". I would then ask them (over the music) How many watts do you think that is?
They would typically provide answers in the 50 to 120 watt range. I got answers as high as 200W.
Then I would take my hand off of the TRMS Stereo watt meter. It was typically showing 1 - 2W per channel. It was never anywhere near having to switch from the 10W range to the 100W range on the meters.
Another example...
I built a what is certainly a low-watt tube amp using subminiature tubes. Some people on the relevant thread told me that it was probably producing less than 1/10th of a watt. I think it is a little more than that, probably again in the 1 - 2W range. It's connected to a pair of vintage Sony bookshelf speakers. I've had my wife walk into the room and complain that it was too loud at the other end of the house. Hummmf!
I'm convinced that most people need thier internal SPL meters re-calibrated.
At the time, Radio Shack sold several stereo True RMS watt meters (different ones in different years). I had them hooked up to one of our smaller stereo systems, allong with a pair of mid-range speakers.
I would cover the watt meters, and play some music loud enough to make it difficult to converse. Sometimes loud enough to make them cringe (just a little) or move away from the speakers. I would characterize it as "Store-filling sound". I would then ask them (over the music) How many watts do you think that is?
They would typically provide answers in the 50 to 120 watt range. I got answers as high as 200W.
Then I would take my hand off of the TRMS Stereo watt meter. It was typically showing 1 - 2W per channel. It was never anywhere near having to switch from the 10W range to the 100W range on the meters.
Another example...
I built a what is certainly a low-watt tube amp using subminiature tubes. Some people on the relevant thread told me that it was probably producing less than 1/10th of a watt. I think it is a little more than that, probably again in the 1 - 2W range. It's connected to a pair of vintage Sony bookshelf speakers. I've had my wife walk into the room and complain that it was too loud at the other end of the house. Hummmf!
I'm convinced that most people need thier internal SPL meters re-calibrated.
Well, I use a Decware amp with 100dB speakers and while it does produce excellent sound and surprisingly high volumes in a small room, I do find it sounds better at lower volumes and gradually lower quality sound as the volume goes up and the complexity of sound increases.
In short, for me it's not enough for all types of listening, and I like having other amp options with more power. For listening to a large orchestral work with a lot of dynamics at a healthy volume, the Decware amp can do it but it loses the detail and magic it has at lower levels and my PP amps sound better.
FWIW, I find this is true with an assortment of components. Not just orchestral, but heavy metal and other hard rock as well. When you want or need serious slam, the same devices which charm with less demanding material and at lower volume can run out of steam.
Whether it's Zep or Wagner, if you want to hear it loud and clear you'll need some muscle. And as much as I like panel speakers, they tend to come up wanting in the same situation. So! This is a(nother) great reason to own a multiplicity of equipment!
In my own case, 80 or 90% of my listening is of the quiet type, whether classical piano or acoustic jazz, so I really get into the nuance and delicacy offered by components like SETs.
Lavane
Lunatic Member
I wish the bare PCB'as were still available to build the amp below. Simple, can be built for $200. It uses cheap $5 each TV sweep tubes. Mine cost me more due to buying a fancy chassis. Even at just 5.5wpc it still gets loud played into 91db speakers. I wish I had bought the last three boards instead of just one. It has become one of my favorite amps.
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Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
One of the advantages of a SET amp is it's ability to resolve detail at low levels. That makes it the best choice for the small group acoustic jazz that dominates my listening habits.