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M&K (Miller and Kreisel) Speaker Hierarchy and Two Channel Recommendations

mccarty350

mccarty350

Super Member
Greetings all. I'm building a nearfield listening system with stand mounted speakers outside of the front of my computer desk perimeter and have employed a low/high pass variable crossover feeding dual M&K 70B speakers. I currently roll in several different bookshelf speakers in my near field rig but am wondering if some actual M&K units would be stellar for use in this scenario for a 2.2 setup.

I've captured a list by checking that auction site for possible candidates:

s-100, s-100b
s1b
k7
s-150
750
851
s-150
s-7b
s-150thx
sx-7
lcr615
ss-150
bookshelf 75 (pluggable ports)
ss-150
k-5
k-7 (dual woofers)
sx-4
s-85
S-3b (might be good...bookshelfs)
M-5

I have no idea where these fall in order of suitability for a bookshelf speaker 2.2 setup. Gut feel says maybe the S1-B and S-100B's are where to go? I'm looking for guidance based on experience or maybe the answer is "M&K bookshelf/satellite speakers are better suited for surround duty instead of for 2 channel stereo listening and you should keep looking at other speakers more focused on 2 channel duties". If this is the answer I'm totally fine with it, I'm just exploring options and concepts.
 
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S85 as a smaller size are very good as are the size and 1/2 larger s125s. Same depth and width but taller to accomadate a second mid/ woofer.
 
mccarty350 said:
Greetings all. I'm building a nearfield listening system with stand mounted speakers outside of the front of my computer desk perimeter and have employed a low/high pass variable crossover feeding dual M&K 70B speakers. I currently roll in several different bookshelf speakers in my near field rig but am wondering if some actual M&K units would be stellar for use in this scenario for a 2.2 setup.

I've captured a list by checking that auction site for possible candidates:

s-100, s-100b
s1b
k7
s-150
750
851
s-150
s-7b
s-150thx
sx-7
lcr615
ss-150
bookshelf 75 (pluggable ports)
ss-150
k-5
k-7 (dual woofers)
sx-4
s-85
S-3b (might be good...bookshelfs)
M-5

I have no idea where these fall in order of suitability for a bookshelf speaker 2.2 setup. Gut feel says maybe the S1-B and S-100B's are where to go? I'm looking for guidance based on experience or maybe the answer is "M&K bookshelf/satellite speakers are better suited for surround duty instead of for 2 channel stereo listening and you should keep looking at other speakers more focused on 2 channel duties". If this is the answer I'm totally fine with it, I'm just exploring options and concepts.
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Are the 2bs not an option? If not they should... the 2b and 1b would be my go to for MK.

Good luck with it :)
 
I didn't know the s2b's existed I literally did a search on m&k at the bay at took notes on every model and hit I got.

So in general is the thought that m&k's would be a smart choice for nearfield two channel? Have either of you owned or heard the models you are mentioning?
 
While certain models met THX certification during the THX craze, they are designed with MUSIC at the forefront of the design with the exception of their tri-pole surrounds and a few others that serve specific roles in a home theater environment.
That being said, Many of the models have a similar tonality and vary in image, output level and driver dispersion pattern. ( with the S-1c allowing you to narrow or widen dispersion).

I have 2510P ( amplified versions of the S-150THX and kin to S-100b) in a nearfield set up. In that family you can also consider ( based on physical size, playback levels and mid bass presence) - S-85, S90, S100b, S125, S-150THX , 2510 ( passive or Active) or S5000 if space is not a concern and really High output levels are the norm.
You can lose your mind going through all the various options but those models IN MY OPINION are in the sweet spot of M&K's history ( along with a few of the Pro Models) That doesn't take anything away from the earlier and later models , I just happen to be a fan of the line during this particular era.

Most of the M&K subs lack a High Pass filter so factor in a standalone unit or a Preamp like Parasound's p5 or P6 for high Low pass duties. Ideally an 80hz -90hz cutoff on the sats works well, ( salt and pepper to taste).

I've sold off most of my M&K Sats and will most likely part ways with many others that I've held on to but I've definitely enjoyed the models I've used ( and there have been SO MANY that have taken up residence in my systems over the years)
 
Thanks for weighing in Bostown! That is exactly what I was wanting to know. The fact that you have sold them off and that they didn't make the cut I would take as a sign if not for the fact that you have owned and rotated so much gear in and out that it's not a sign that M&K is a bad choice. So let me broaden out this question outside the scope of M&K. Out of the quadrillion speakers you have rotated in and out of the bookshelf genre, what are some stand out models you would recommend? I'm of a similar bent i.e. I want to try some good products and if I get bored I will sell them but at least I want to start out with a target pool of great sounding products. I think in a past thread you mentioned MB Quart 280 (not sure of the alpha designations but I remember the number was 280) was something special. What else?

From what I see S-85, S90, S100b and S125 are semi common and are reasonably priced, as soon as you add the THX designation the price goes up significantly. So it sounds like the S1B's aren't the way to go, I should more target the S100b's and S125's..
 
I still own the S125's although packed in their org box's can't seem to let them go, for a pretty small
footprint and elevated appropriately pretty impressive.
If you find a good pair can't go wrong for reasonable $$.
 
BTW you have the beginnings of an M&K database of models. Would be cool to have a chart that showed driver complement, dates of production etc.
 
totem said:
I still own the S125's although packed in their org box's can't seem to let them go, for a pretty small
footprint and elevated appropriately pretty impressive.
If you find a good pair can't go wrong for reasonable $$.
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Agree, of all my M&K speakers, I think I like my S125s the best for sound.

I own S85, S100, S125.
 
I've heard several of the earlier models and thought they sounded great as well ( S-1b included) I just have an affinity for the line that followed, then I trail off when they started doing the later stuff ( 750, 851, 950 or whatever those models were).
I agree on the S-125, as @jazzmans noted. - The 100B is a step in the direction of the S-150thx with respects to imaging and output level handling. and the 85's despite being smaller can hold their own as well , just not at the same HIGHER output levels as the 125 and 100B models.
 
Man, I really appreciate the full court press in responses, thank you all so much!

So in my case since I'm going to be stand mounted maybe 3-4 feet away from my listening position at my computer desk and supplementing with dual MX-70B's I likely should focus on the imaging and sound quality aspects as the SPL isn't going to be as much as a factor. I am guessing it would be fair to say that near field any of them will deliver sufficient output.

Awesome suggestion regarding reaching out to Mr. Kreisel as well but for now I'm great with the the info that has been chimed in!

Perhaps the S85 would be the way to go for near field listening just because the price is likely lower and I'm speculating that they have similar sound/imaging just scaled down for less SPL? Is that a fair assumption or do they lag in some manner such as imaging, etc.?
 
Another question while I think of it, have any of you heard the Bookshelf 75 or is that on the lower end of the spectrum? I didn't see anyone mention it so that means it either isn't one of the better options or there hasn't been exposure.
 
mccarty350 said:
I didn't know the s2b's existed I literally did a search on m&k at the bay at took notes on every model and hit I got.

So in general is the thought that m&k's would be a smart choice for nearfield two channel? Have either of you owned or heard the models you are mentioning?
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Really ^^ ? LOL

Yes I have had the 2b's and the 1B's. I have listened to many sets of M&K. the S2B are amazing for near field listening. They are satellite speakers tho, so you should be running a sub... (I didn't and found that thy were fine) but I also just refuse to run a sub.



Some old videos of mine... ^^ had me doing some deep searching on YT :P

Note: I wouldn't suggest something that I hadn't tired or owned myself....

Regards,
John


set up.jpg

that is just to prove that I still live in that location, and if you notice the shelf on the left is the same shelf in the video...
 
So sorry man I didn't mean it that way HAHAHAHA...to clarify (sometimes when you type things out it doesn't come out the way you thought it in your mind) it was mean to ask clarification if they were heard elsewhere or if you were the owner so that I could determine if the listening impressions were from short term (hearing it somewhere else) or long term (owned). Instead it came out like I was questioning the opinion and veracity. That totally was not my intent sorry about that.

However...it did result in you posting awesome photos (because we all love pics) and videos so I guess there was an unintended positive ;)

BTW, what are the speakers on the ground in the bottom photo, are those Heresy's?
 
85 , 125 or 100B - budget depending. I like the Bookshelf 75 but there are models from Acoustic Energy, Sapphire Audio, Cambridge Soundworks , RA Labs and others that for short money are phenomenal.
 
Any specific standouts from those lines?

Just to give some insights, I was going down this route because my next DIY kit (SB Acoustics Bromo Speakers with all ceramic drivers) was delayed due to the drivers being out of stock everywhere domestically but suddenly they arrived and the order is going through so for now my speaker lust will be sated now that that kit will come in and get assembled. This has now gone from "I gotta have some M&K mains or something else cool" to "excellent research/learning/reading" if that computes.
 
mccarty350 said:
So sorry man I didn't mean it that way HAHAHAHA...to clarify (sometimes when you type things out it doesn't come out the way you thought it in your mind) it was mean to ask clarification if they were heard elsewhere or if you were the owner so that I could determine if the listening impressions were from short term (hearing it somewhere else) or long term (owned). Instead it came out like I was questioning the opinion and veracity. That totally was not my intent sorry about that.

However...it did result in you posting awesome photos (because we all love pics) and videos so I guess there was an unintended positive ;)

BTW, what are the speakers on the ground in the bottom photo, are those Heresy's?
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I know I was just poking at you a little :)

I'm a true fan of 2 way stereo, I only run a single set of speakers at a time, so when I start to read someone is doing a near field set up I get excited :)

Sinus 2.jpg
Sinus 3.jpg
Sinus 4.jpg

The set is a set of Sinus 44F, I have been restoring for a few months. :)
 
I have never seen or heard of those!! Looks like the tweeter is a vintage Phillips? As far as near field two channel I'll take all the advice I can get, I've owned so many floor standers in the past decade I don't even know what to say but as far as near field and bookshelf speakers this is a whole new world for me and I'm ignorant.

So far what I've rolled through here:

NHT Zero's: Kind of dark sounding (they were zero's not super zero's). Not my cup of tea. Not very dynamic.
DIY Carmody Classix II: Great bookshelfs and can play any thing, not just audiophile fare with aplomb. I'm in the process of finishing them with epoxy resin (it takes forever...I don't think I'd do it again) so they have been out of rotation for literally months.
DIY C-Notes: Great little speakers for 100 bones.
DIY Mark Audio Aupair 11p full rangers: Man...I'm listening to these now and for $85 bucks a driver for two drivers (on sale at M******* in Wisconsin...asterisking it out as I'm not sure if policy allows me to provide vendor names in these threads, etc.) they are killer. Slightly bright but man...you would never know there was no tweeter. Super impressed.
Next Project: DIY SB Acoustic Bromo's (items on order)
 
mccarty350 said:
I have never seen or heard of those!! Looks like the tweeter is a vintage Phillips? As far as near field two channel I'll take all the advice I can get, I've owned so many floor standers in the past decade I don't even know what to say but as far as near field and bookshelf speakers this is a whole new world for me and I'm ignorant.

So far what I've rolled through here:

NHT Zero's: Kind of dark sounding (they were zero's not super zero's). Not my cup of tea. Not very dynamic.
DIY Carmody Classix II: Great bookshelfs and can play any thing, not just audiophile fare with aplomb. I'm in the process of finishing them with epoxy resin (it takes forever...I don't think I'd do it again) so they have been out of rotation for literally months.
DIY C-Notes: Great little speakers for 100 bones.
DIY Mark Audio Aupair 11p full rangers: Man...I'm listening to these now and for $85 bucks a driver for two drivers (on sale at M******* in Wisconsin...asterisking it out as I'm not sure if policy allows me to provide vendor names in these threads, etc.) they are killer. Slightly bright but man...you would never know there was no tweeter. Super impressed.
Next Project: DIY SB Acoustic Bromo's (items on order)
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I’m no expert at all, but I do know what “good sound” is, or “accurate reproduction”.

I don’t run a sub so most will say that bookshelf’s require one... that’s your perspective. Also keep in mind that sound is subjective.

For near field listening I’m a big fan of small JBL & Snell. Snell are some of my favorite speakers have had a few sets now.

The set to look for would be some 4301b, I have a 2nd set arriving tomorrow that I’m building.

Next set would be the Decade L16s. Don’t be fooled that they are the decade line.... I did some nice Jantzen caps and exact value shunts in mine and they are amazing. Really efficient and super accurate. This set is one that I refuse to be rid of as they are just so right. Not many sets were sold so not many folks even know about them. They go for 2-300 and the size is nice, super rigid cabinets too.

Maybe some 4401s that’s one set I wish I sill had. They were just cool mini JBLs... Sounded pretty good too. Not great but they could hang.

JBL L19s are nice but if you go that route I’d suggest upgrading the crossovers as well. Thy can be a bit boomy if out of spec. When dialed in they will make your face melt.

The thing with vintage speakers is getting the crossover point back to spec. JBLs old paper caps usually are a good 10-20% out of spec. I don’t want to thread jack this thread but I can PM you some of the JBl builds I’ve documented on the site.

3444BB08-BE73-4A49-8876-7F2AC88FE74A.jpeg

4F3D0D3A-BEE3-48BA-A043-9FC1AE73B81D.jpeg

Pioneer S-X4g. So this is not a set that shows up often but when they do they are not really known so you can usually get them for a good deal. They do best with a warm amp.


1205C27F-1EF3-45B2-AC5B-9E75CADCE09E.jpeg

Some other full range speakers I like:

PSB Alpha 1B’s

Quad 11L

QLN Model 1s

B&W DM12 (wonderful but you need at least 100w to get them sounding good) super power hungry.

M&K s2b

Snell Type KIII*

You can’t really go wrong with some Snells.

I’m sure you know all this but placement is a big part of this. Whatever you get just make sure you dial in the placement as best you can to squeeze as much sound as possible :)
 
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