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Mach 1 woofer: Better than the Mach 2 woofer?

sealy

Addicted Member
A friend recently bought a pair of Realistic Mach 2's that turned out to have Mach 1 woofers installed. The woofers were 3805's, with heavy magnets, (heavier I believe, than those on Mach 2 woofers) and rubber surrounds. To my ears, these sounded superior to the original Mach 2 woofers. An interesting revelation since(as far as I know) the Mach 1 woofers are designed for sealed cabinets, whereas the Mach 2 boxes are ported.

Has anyone else had a similar experience, or for that matter, compared the two woofers?
 
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A friend recently bought a pair of Realistic Mach 2's that turned out to have Mach 1 woofers installed. The woofers were 3805's, with heavy magnets, (heavier I believe, than those on Mach 2 woofers) and rubber surrounds. To my ears, these sounded superior to the original Mach 2 woofers. An interesting revelation since(as far as I know) the Mach 1 woofers are designed for sealed cabinets, whereas the Mach 2 boxes are ported.

Has anyone else had a similar experience, or for that matter, compared the two woofers?
I believe some of this is covered in the Mach One thread with the VL mods. I have a pair of the Two's and one spare One woofer. The Two has a more rigid cone and larger magnet structure (barely, but it is larger even just eyeing). I think the main issue will be in suspension (surround and spider), i.e. whether or not the One can be used in a ported enclosure and I'm thinking not the best idea. Still, I'd check out the thread.
 
Right, will do. The Mach 1 woofer seems to have more bottom end, but lacking a Mach 2 woofer for direct comparison, this statement may be conjecture. Surprisingly, the thick rubber surround of the Mach 1 woofer seems equally stiff to that of the Mach 2 woofer's foam surround, although in truth, the Mach 1 surround feels more like a foam/rubber composite.
 
Right, will do. The Mach 1 woofer seems to have more bottom end, but lacking a Mach 2 woofer for direct comparison, this statement may be conjecture. Surprisingly, the thick rubber surround of the Mach 1 woofer seems equally stiff to that of the Mach 2 woofer's foam surround, although in truth, the Mach 1 surround feels more like a foam/rubber composite.
It is in fact a treated foam. They used it with most of their mid to upper line speakers. I recall my Two's sounding deeper (more mid bass), which I attribute to the porting more than the woofer, while the One seemed to be smooter. Below hearing they were awful close. Using Winisd I believe the Two did graph better than the One, deeper bottom end, though the One seemed flatter in response. Also Winisd came up with larger, much larger, volumes for cabs than original designs.

Why undersize? Simple, economics. RS had to distribute products to 7000 stores (close to that in the 70's, easily by the 80's). Many of those stores swap inventory, shortages, overages, etc. All shipped via UPS. 18 wheelers were only used for warehouse direct to stores. If you shipped UPS you had to meet size and weight requirements. When dealing with that many locations (points of distribution) you can't be eating up all your profits in shipping.

It's a concession, but one not one person seems to have taken into consideration when knocking down Mach One's, Two's and Three's. Not saying you of course, others do read these posts. HiFi stores had Truck shipments. They dealed direct with the public, so the type of inter-store exchanges didn't happen with the regularity of RS, so companies like JBL, Klipsh, etc. didn't have to keep this in mind. They also knew they were catering to clients who typically had deeper pockets.

Oh, I worked for RS for 10 years, sales, then computers, then full line manager.

Forgot, the treated foam was only on the 4024 and 4024a. All Mach's afterwards used standard issue foam. I've always wondered why so many of the "top dogs" never used that foam? There may have been shortcommings, though I'm not aware of one, but vs foam rott? Go figure.
 
Copa, you worked at RS? So did I... I miss inventory nights, counting all the little resistors we had in stock... :)
 
Copa, you worked at RS? So did I... I miss inventory nights, counting all the little resistors we had in stock... :)
Oh yeah, even more fun when you make a special trip out of state, leaving the "crew" to handle inventory, come back and find the guy in charge pilford $6k wholesale in merch. Very well planned, took catalogs, phone books and what ever he could and swapped them for the merch. Picked only slower moving merch and then tendered his resignation due to missing family (from another state). We didn't discover what was amis till we sold an item that had been replaced with said filler. Oh, if that wasn't enough he also stole a customers computer that was on layaway! That's one inventory I don't miss and will never forget. Took a huge chunk out of my bonus that year. And no they didn't have enough to get him on, nor the ability to pull him in from out of state.

Other than that, pizza night, soda, movies, music and whatever made it more entertaining!
 
My best RS memory... At work (Vallco Mall, Cupertino, CA) on a weekday back in 1989, just me and the manager. Manager took a call from the DM which lasted a few minutes. He came back out to the front counter and he just stood there for a minute or so. He finally turned to me and said "Mike, I can't take it anymore..." He handed me the key and left! After the initial shock, I turned on some Boston through some Mach Twos, and ran the store by myself at age 21 for about 6 hours until the evening guys showed up. Good times!
 
My best RS memory... At work (Vallco Mall, Cupertino, CA) on a weekday back in 1989, just me and the manager. Manager took a call from the DM which lasted a few minutes. He came back out to the front counter and he just stood there for a minute or so. He finally turned to me and said "Mike, I can't take it anymore..." He handed me the key and left! After the initial shock, I turned on some Boston through some Mach Twos, and ran the store by myself at age 21 for about 6 hours until the evening guys showed up. Good times!
LMAO! I don't recall anything quite like that. We had a really good DM, looked after people really good. My first DM was a millionaire, via RS stocks, by his 30's. There was a time when it was such a good paying job that in the industry RS created more millionaires than most other companies. In 1983 a manager I knew personally was making close to $100k, while others in the region were making in excess of that comfortably. Then came the compensation changes of '89' that led to the largest mass exodus of tenured managers in RS history. That one bit them in the behind big time. They later restored some of the stuff they took away, but by then it was too late.
 
Copa, you worked at RS? So did I... I miss inventory nights, counting all the little resistors we had in stock... :)

I don't. One of the last ones I worked the company squeezed it in right before New Years. Since everybody was making commission, and not being paid by the hour in December, they got a wage-free inventory out of us. I had to pay myself back by "borrowing" a few things. My "overtime" digital meter still works great.:D

I'll be watching this thread. I have a pair of Ones and Twos. I plan on using one set in my garage and selling the other set. The Twos need a re-foam, so I can't really judge them yet. Is putting the woofers from the Ones into the twos easy, and worth a try? I'm curious now.
 
I don't. One of the last ones I worked the company squeezed it in right before New Years. Since everybody was making commission, and not being paid by the hour in December, they got a wage-free inventory out of us. I had to pay myself back by "borrowing" a few things. My "overtime" digital meter still works great.:D

I'll be watching this thread. I have a pair of Ones and Twos. I plan on using one set in my garage and selling the other set. The Twos need a re-foam, so I can't really judge them yet. Is putting the woofers from the Ones into the twos easy, and worth a try? I'm curious now.
Other than the magnet sizes they are identical "physically". Same frames, same bolt pattern, etc. The Two's have additional smaller holes for the beauty rings. As for VC, I think VL did something on this, but not positive, mainly the former and windings were different, though not sure exactly to what degree. The formers and windings were different between the 4024's (a's included) and 4029's.
 
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