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Made the Klipschorn upgrade but feel I don't have worthy equipment

audiodogster

audiodogster

Active Member
Hello all, I am a proud owner of some 1989 Klipschorns. I have Fortes and used to have La Scala Industrial. I love the Forte, wasn't as enthusiastic about the La Scala but they were bone stock with original 1988 crossovers. Forte I recapped but haven't gotten around to changing to Crites diaphragms. They sound great as is.

I wasn't a huge fan of the La Scala's tweeters and the Klipschorns have the same ones. They're nowhere near as detailed as my ADS or Monitor Audio, but with the Klipschorn network, I find them to be slightly less offensive than the La Scalas. Might consider an upgrade down the line because I miss the sizzle of the hi hat.

I wasn't planning on buying Klipschorns yet (was a dream) but they popped up at auction near me and I got them for a relatively good price. As such, I feel like my equipment is outclassed. I have tons of vintage stuff and most of it needs servicing (I'm pretty handy at soldering and biasing but ordering capacitors is a task and I'm not super versed in what's best in audio applications). My "best" unit is a Carver MVX-2000 which was their last TOTL receiver designed by Bob Carver himself. As such, it needs a bit of work in the amplifier section because I'm not entirely convinced Bob Carver designed for reliability. I'm currently running it as a preamp for a NAD THX 2400 amp. Not ideal but all of my other equipment has been failing me recently of never got fixed after I bought it.

Yamaha CA-410 II: This sounded the best with the Klipschorns by far but it started having some buzz in the right channel so I pulled it from service

Marantz 2225: Just picked this up from the original owner and it has the common issue of old American equipment of popping once it has warmed up. Some say it's the tantalum caps, others say it's noisy transistors. Was going to order a rebuild kit but the seller is on vacation and I don't want to bother with it atm

Harmon Kardon 470 Twin Powered: I bought this to give to my dad but my parents still haven't cleaned up their house enough for me to get speakers in there. I planned to use this for him with the Forte but I got about 95% through replacing capacitors and a few transistors to find I had more transistors out of spec because I couldn't set the bias properly. I'm told this is a fabulous unit for old Klipsch stuff so once I remember where I left off 2 years ago I'll finish it.

I do have some tubes but nothing super fancy. One is a standalone tube intergrated amp, a Voice of Music 1448. The other two are consoles that need to be recapped and biased, a Philco H-1816 (their TOTL unit with electrostatic tweeters but the step up portion of the amplfier can be disabled) and a Fisher Custom Electra IV with the 440T and 440A.

I'm planning on fixing up all of these units eventually, but which would you pick to service and try first?

One other question, I've heard conflicting details. Is it worth recapping the stock AK2 crossovers or upgrading to AK3 (not sure how this is done but read it's swapping a few components), or are the capacitors probably fine since they're not electrolytic? I replaced the poly caps on the Forte because people suggested they were poor quality but not sure if that's still true for the stock AK2 caps. I might look into a more exotic crossover later but it's not a priority.
 
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In the midst of a similar experience, audiodogster. Unexpectedly purchased a set of 1984 Klipschorns with original AK-2 crossover recently. They're gorgeous, but I fear I don't have a big enough room for them. All crossover caps test good, but I did just order some Sonicaps to see what difference it makes. I don't have the $ for any other upgrades right now.
 
you have a selection of decent amplifiers give them all a listen see what you think. Better quality gear is never a mistake. If you really want to upgrade your system start at the transport then the dac and follow outward to the speakers last for the best results. I might also say that the SQ of your CD's can also be improved by a substantial amount with surface treatments and with non stretching tape applied to minimize disk flex when playing. This results in reduced disk flex or resonance and so in reduced focus servo action and reduces error correction all of which contribute to small but noticeable distortions. There are also many other tweaks which can result in appreciable improvement to the overall SQ of your system.
 
I was once fiddling behind things with wires.....ended up mistakenly wiring my CD player directly to the amps. I didn't realize I had done that but it sounded NOTICABLY nicer like that than with the preamp in circuit.

If you have a variable output on a CD player, you might give that a whirl too.

If you have the inclination and budget....you might go active with them so you can better align the signal of each driver. Of course, you'd need six channels of amplification.
 
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Coytee said:
I was once fiddling behind things with wires.....ended up mistakenly wiring my CD player directly to the amps. I didn't realize I had done that but it sounded NOTICABLY nicer like that than with the preamp in circuit.

If you have a variable output on a CD player, you might give that a whirl too.

If you have the inclination and budget....you might go active with them so you can better align the signal of each driver. Of course, you'd need six channels of amplification.
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I

I have a Carver SD/A-490t cd player with a tube output stage that sounds wonderful when hooked directly to the amp, so you're definitely onto something.

I've thought about active but haven't done enough research yet.
 
I had never done active....then changed speakers and overnight BOOM, went from passive my lifetime to active. It's not terribly difficult....you just need the right ingredients (wires, XLR adapters maybe, amps, blue eyed blonde next to you......oh, strike my last comment....)

When I changed, I had the 'recipe' for the active itself. I had factory PEQ's.... dialing in the Khorn would be different but doable.

Please trust me when I say, if I can do it, most anyone can.
 
Coytee said:
I had never done active....then changed speakers and overnight BOOM, went from passive my lifetime to active. It's not terribly difficult....you just need the right ingredients (wires, XLR adapters maybe, amps, blue eyed blonde next to you......oh, strike my last comment....)

When I changed, I had the 'recipe' for the active itself. I had factory PEQ's.... dialing in the Khorn would be different but doable.

Please trust me when I say, if I can do it, most anyone can.
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Well I have a stack of Crown Com-Tech 800 and Ashly FTX 2001 II amps in a closet that might be good options, or complete overkill depending on how you look at it
 
After having a taste of K-horns in my living room and a chance to experiment with different amps and power output, I can honestly say I liked them hooked to my high power WOPL amp and Mitsubishi preamp. Although the amp was way more than needed, the headroom and definition was stunning. It was cleaner and much more dynamic than my Fisher KX-200 or Scott 299-C. Just when I got them dialed in, someone I knew heard that I had them, came over to get a listen, and made me a crazy offer I couldn't refuse, no way no how. I am a bit sad they are gone, but I have a line on another pair that need restoration, and I just might get them within the next year or so.

All I'm saying is to experiment with what you have, they really do well with powerful amps also. I originally had a tube preamp in line with the WOPL that had no tone controls, once I swapped that out with the Mitsubishi I was able to dial in the tone. It was heavenly while it lasted, now I have my new RF-7 III's in their place and liking them very much.
 
RS Steve said:
After having a taste of K-horns in my living room and a chance to experiment with different amps and power output, I can honestly say I liked them hooked to my high power WOPL amp and Mitsubishi preamp. Although the amp was way more than needed, the headroom and definition was stunning. It was cleaner and much more dynamic than my Fisher KX-200 or Scott 299-C. Just when I got them dialed in, someone I knew heard that I had them, came over to get a listen, and made me a crazy offer I couldn't refuse, no way no how. I am a bit sad they are gone, but I have a line on another pair that need restoration, and I just might get them within the next year or so.

All I'm saying is to experiment with what you have, they really do well with powerful amps also. I originally had a tube preamp in line with the WOPL that had no tone controls, once I swapped that out with the Mitsubishi I was able to dial in the tone. It was heavenly while it lasted, now I have my new RF-7 III's in their place and liking them very much.
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Saw your thread on the WOLP, pretty cool looking Mitsubishi pre. I'd probably end up recapping anything that old but that looks like a pretty good value for money versus some other vintage pre amps.
 
audiodogster said:
Saw your thread on the WOLP, pretty cool looking Mitsubishi pre. I'd probably end up recapping anything that old but that looks like a pretty good value for money versus some other vintage pre amps.
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I'm not one to recap if the unit is working properly, my tech thoroughly checked it out and it has never disappointed me. I have the version with the built in tuner also.
 
grillebilly said:
I think the beauty of K Horns are you don't need fancy high end gear to drive them.
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A lot of truth in this statement.

I first listened to my Khorns through a unrestored Pioneer SX680 and cheapy CD player. They sounded great.

Will better equipment make them sound better? Well..... sure.... but you won't suffer with lesser pieces....
 
Ohighway said:
A lot of truth in this statement.

I first listened to my Khorns through a unrestored Pioneer SX680 and cheapy CD player. They sounded great.

Will better equipment make them sound better? Well..... sure.... but you won't suffer with lesser pieces....
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your comment about your KHorns sounding great with a midfi amp and "cheapy" CD payer is 100% subjective. I would have been more positively impressed had you said something like "I have never head the gear that I used sound so good" or " I never thought those components were capable of such a high level of playback quality". Thing is for most folks when they move up in quality of the gear they use in their rig it becomes immediately obvious that going backwards is then a very difficult thing to do. It does feel like suffering or putting up with poor quality equipment when you have to down grade your equipment to a lower level than you have become accustom to. To emphasize this there have been several times over the years when I heard very much better sounding component or system than what I owned an I actually felt ill and when I went home I knew I that could not play my system and be in any way satisfied by it so I intentionally did not play my system, in one case for more than a couple of weeks for fear I would I be driven to replace it which at the time I could not afford to do.
It has been my experience that better speakers expose both system strengths and weaknesses while a better source makes any system capable of providing more than it could with a lesser quality source. Good quality midfi gear should be well balanced but don't expect it to be very revealing. This is why I recommend people make improvements at the source first and then work out toward their speakers last. Doing the reverse can be very disconcerting and the full quality of the system is not revealed until you work your way back to the source.
 
audiodogster said:
I

I have a Carver SD/A-490t cd player with a tube output stage that sounds wonderful when hooked directly to the amp, so you're definitely onto something.
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I bought one of those new in the 90s and kept it for quite a few years but sold it.
I have regretted it ever since. They are nice.
 
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