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Manual turntable?

Dansk

Dansk

cantus audio
Just a quick question, when a turntable is described as manual, does it include auto-return or not? I'm referring to the Technics line, as in the SL-1500/1800/etc. I know there's no stop button, I'm just curious if you have to pick it up yourself at the end of the record too. Is this something that varies by manufacturer? Forgive me if this is a stupid question!
 
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In general:

Manual = No automatic functions at all
Semi-Auto = Auto return/stop
Auto = Fully automatic i.e. automatic start as well.
 
Not a stupid question at all.
A manual TT means you put the stylus on the record yourself. It can mean auto-LIFT at the end of the record, but not return to the arm rest. The power may or may not remain on.

Return to the arm rest would make it a "semi-automatic" unit.

Full automatic means automatic set-down of the stylus, and return to the arm rest at the end of the record, and shuts itself off.

Tom
 
Ah ha, thanks! That answers my question perfectly!

Now my next question is, why would you want a fully manual table? I have no interest in a completely automatic one because I like setting the stylus on the record myself and have little faith in the ability of a machine to do that properly, but semi-automatic would seem to only make sense. I don't want to have to get up immediately after the last song to pick up the tonearm, and if you forget to do it you're not wearing out your stylus. Is there an improvement in sound without the extra mechanical components attached to the motor?

(This is all purely academic, I've got a semi-auto SL-Q2 right now that I'm perfectly happy with, I'm just curious about these other manual models I've seen floating around.)
 
I've got an SL-Q2 also - nice little semi-auto table, and bulletproof like the rest of the better technics tables.
If you are asking about the Sl-1500 - "manual" means no auto-lift. I've got one (original series) and a 1400 which is identical except for semi-auto (just like the Q2).

From what I've heard, the full manual/semi-/automatic is just like the direct/belt/idler drive question. Some say the automatic features add noise to the system. It clearly makes some noise on lift and return, but I assume they mean they can hear it when it isn't actively lifting and returning. Personally, I can't hear any difference between the 1400 and 1500, but someone else might.
Also, that mechanism is just another thing that can go bad.
Probably the biggest reason so many use manuals is that the proliferation of expensive audiophile tonearms, which don't include that feature and would be a hassle to set up.
 
I have the Technics SP-25, Manual Table. It's "fully manual." You need to place the arm over the LP and then cue down. Cue up at the ens.
This type of 'table has no linkages to the arm. The arm has free movement on the LP. At the end of the disc, the leadout groove is it's course.
The advantage of this type of 'table is that there is no noise transfer from the return, etc, linkage to the cartridge. The overall advantage is quiet operation and a lower "noise floor."

Ron
 
" why would you want a fully manual table? "
automated functions on a turntable usually eat into the designers budget...
purely manual turntables 'supposedly' invest the greatest proportion of the design & manufacturing budget into retrieving the maximum sound quality possible through careful engineering where it matters most..
isolation, speed stability, suppression of mechanical resonance,good durable bearing,concentric platter, good quality motor & a well engineered arm
are all things that require careful engineering...and quality engineering is expensive and time consuming..
most quality manual turntables once setup have less to go wrong...
and can have a long user lifespan...
..
thats my take on the theory anyway... :scratch2:
 
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Dansk said:
Ah ha, thanks! That answers my question perfectly!

Now my next question is, why would you want a fully manual table? I have no interest in a completely automatic one because I like setting the stylus on the record myself and have little faith in the ability of a machine to do that properly, but semi-automatic would seem to only make sense. I don't want to have to get up immediately after the last song to pick up the tonearm, and if you forget to do it you're not wearing out your stylus. Is there an improvement in sound without the extra mechanical components attached to the motor?
Click to expand...

Why? In my case when I finally got something that sounded astonishingly good to my ears (Thorens TD-125-ll), it happened to be manual. I really do wish it would at least lift the stylus at the end of the record, but I like the way it sounds an awful lot. I've had so many others that were mediocre or worse, I'm not willing to give this up to get auto lift.

Most of the great sounding turntables I have heard in the past have also been manual. It doesnt have to be this way, but it usually is.

John
 
As to setting the needle down manually, in my case, the famous "two martini" sound would be a loud scratch as the needle drags across the record from my clumsy handling of the tone arm.

That's why I prefer automatic. However the best TT I've owned was a completely manual AR.
 
manual or not?

blue_lateral said:
Why? In my case when I finally got something that sounded astonishingly good to my ears (Thorens TD-125-ll), it happened to be manual. I really do wish it would at least lift the stylus at the end of the record, but I like the way it sounds an awful lot. I've had so many others that were mediocre or worse, I'm not willing to give this up to get auto lift.

Most of the great sounding turntables I have heard in the past have also been manual. It doesnt have to be this way, but it usually is.

John
Click to expand...
Preach on John, Just like a dog, think about the way you live :scratch2: then buy something that fits. My (thorens TD-125 MKII) :banana: If the suspention is set right, tell us about your room, the way you listen to music, the volume, You can not go wrong with a 70's Thorens,Peace,Craig
 
On top of the other reasons for a manual TT is "The Record Ritual". Playing a record requires full attention and the process becomes a form of meditation interspersed with music. I focus more on what I am doing and what I am hearing.

I also have a full automatic Dual 741 as well for those times when I can't devote my full attention, but I'd rather go through the ritual.
 
One of my tables is a full-auto Dual while the other two, a Thorens and a Pioneer, are fully manual. I have my preferences but like them all .

I doubt that a PROPERLY designed and manufactured semi-or-full auto would change sound over a manual but the mechanism necessary usually adds a small amount of moving mass to the tonearm and always adds complexity.

Notice that I said "properly designed and executed." Cheap and shoddy has a sound and it's not pretty.
 
As a thrift store shopper, I specifically sought out a fully manual TT because there is much less to go wrong with it. Most turntables I was bringing home had problems with the auto-return mechanisms, and the mess of gears, cams, etc. that link the arm to the motor made me crazy when trying to get them operating properly. The big downside to fully manual is you have to be really careful not to fall asleep while the record is playing...
 
I'll just add that from all I have read allowing a stylus to remain in the groove at the end of an album causes no more wear then the grooves with music in them does. Of course if you leave it in the groove a couple hours that is certinly a couple hours off the total life of the stylus.

Course if I'm in the room the bounce when it starts over is enough to get may ass off the couch and to lift the tonearm

My Pro-Ject 1.2 has a hydralic lift lever that I locate the stylus above the start of the music and then drop the tonearm by moving the little lever the stylus very slowly lowers to the record. At the end of the record I move the lever back up and it raises the tonearm right away.

All manual but very little risk of messing up a stylus or record as long as you make sure it is over the starting groove or music when you let it down.

And I can do that on the second half of any evening.
 
cosmicdust said:
Hiya Kevin,

I have a SL-1200 which is manual and some Duals which are semi. I have read somewhere that the SL-1200 was designed specifically to be manual for the DJs. DJs do not need the extra functions.

cosmicdust.
Click to expand...

If yours is the original SL-1200, as mine is, than you have the first incarnation of that table. This table was meant for home use. The 1200 Mk II was a higher torque table, with the little pop up cueing light. These, and a couple other features, rounded out the table for DJ use.
 
In a manual TT would not lifting the stylus immediately at the end of play damage the stylus? thanks
 
Mark W. said:
I'll just add that from all I have read allowing a stylus to remain in the groove at the end of an album causes no more wear then the grooves with music in them does. Of course if you leave it in the groove a couple hours that is certinly a couple hours off the total life of the stylus.

Course if I'm in the room the bounce when it starts over is enough to get may ass off the couch and to lift the tonearm

My Pro-Ject 1.2 has a hydralic lift lever that I locate the stylus above the start of the music and then drop the tonearm by moving the little lever the stylus very slowly lowers to the record. At the end of the record I move the lever back up and it raises the tonearm right away.

All manual but very little risk of messing up a stylus or record as long as you make sure it is over the starting groove or music when you let it down.

And I can do that on the second half of any evening.
Click to expand...

FYI Your turntable doesn't have a hydraulic lift lever and neither do either of mine. It is a purely mechanical device that been drenched with a very thick fluid that slows its action. If you took all the fluid out of the mechanism it would still lift the arm and drop it just fine it would just not have the damping action.
 
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